This is a discussion on UFC 91 Discussion thread within the MMA - Mixed Martial Arts forums, part of the Sports Forums category; Zar's point is that a lot of people do not feel that Lesnar belongs in the UFC (which conversely, at ...
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Zar's point is that a lot of people do not feel that Lesnar belongs in the UFC (which conversely, at this level I agree, he is far too green) and that he shows well against Randy then the fans might begin to respect him more. It's got nothing to do with what Lesnar may want, and everything to do with what he fans want.
Why would he care if fans cheer for him or boo him?
I can just imagine the thoughts
Lesnar: I may have lost the title, lost to a man who is over 40, lost to a man who is 80 pounds lighter than me, and lost over 100,000 dollars in potential earnings...but hey at least the fans cheered me.
Totally see your point.
On second thought, you're probably right. He obviously doesn't care about shit like respect of his peers in a sport he is working his ass off to be part of. Obviously, from all the insight you have given me, Lesnar is simply a one dimensional cartoon of a man, similar to his role in the WWE. I appreciate the window into his simple mind.
__________________ I don't recognize anyone around here. Damn name changes.
Same reason T.O doesn't care, he gets paid whether you like him or not because he produces results.
MMA and football are very different sir. They may dislike TO but still enjoy the team, and like that he helps their team in the long run. In MMA you get behind the individual.
Fans buy shit. IF you get a cut of PPV money, you want a fan-base to buy your fights. You want the UFC to view you as a valuable draw. I know Lesnar is, but he needs to maintain that status or the novelty will wear off. A solid fan-base can lead to bigger and more lucrative endorsements. Cheers get you hyped for a fight. Being respected by the people within your industry also probably makes your life in general much, much easier.
And I know that some people can look at fight performance alone but unfortunately that isn't the general public.
__________________ I don't recognize anyone around here. Damn name changes.
At this point, MMA is still fairly similar to pro wrestling in that its all built around pay per views. Which makes fighter popularity absolutely key. Fans either need to love or love to hate (as in Tito Ortiz) a top fighter for him to sell PPVs effectively. Indifference or mild dislike won't work at all.
As an MMA fan, I have no issue with Lesnar's pro wrestling background. It would be hypocritical of me if I did, as I love Sakuraba.
What I do have an issue with is the way the UFC has dealt with Lesnar. They gave him a huge contract. To make that contract worthwhile, they can't treat him like any other 1-0 promsing fighter coming into the UFC. Instead, they put him on the secondary main event on a PPV. And you can't really argue that its because of his college wrestling background, as other really good college wrestler's that come into MMA don't get that treatment. Now they're promoting that 2-1 fighters title fight with one of their all-time greats as the "biggest fight in MMA history". That just seems disrespectful towards Couture to me.
It all makes good business sense, as Lesnar is a marketable guy and can appeal to a slightly different demographic than most MMA guys (as in the pure pro wrestling fans). But in terms of "legitimacy" and "good for the sport" and all that, it isn't. I don't see it as all that much different from Elite XC and Kimbo Slice. Obviously not the same, but a related situation with the same backing logic.
What I do have an issue with is the way the UFC has dealt with Lesnar. They gave him a huge contract. To make that contract worthwhile, they can't treat him like any other 1-0 promsing fighter coming into the UFC. Instead, they put him on the secondary main event on a PPV. And you can't really argue that its because of his college wrestling background, as other really good college wrestler's that come into MMA don't get that treatment. Now they're promoting that 2-1 fighters title fight with one of their all-time greats as the "biggest fight in MMA history". That just seems disrespectful towards Couture to me.
Agreed.
They fed him Mir because they thought Mir was past it and would get annihilated by Lesnar's power standing up, but Brock was (and still is) too green and got himself into a position that Mir took advantage of. Then they gave him Heath and he managed to grind out a decision because of his size and strength, very much like Josh Koscheck did against Leben in TUF season one. It wasn't exciting, but it got the job done. Lesnar is not ready for this title shot and if he beats Couture he will be destroyed by Nog.
Business wise however, it's a brilliant decision. The wrestling fans will buy it, the MMA fans will by it, and you might even get the odd casual fan of both popping in because it's two guys who are both massive in their respective fields (I'm talking about Lesnar's WWE run here, obviously).
And it's all elementry anyway, Nog's gonna own the winner.
They fed him Mir because they thought Mir was past it and would get annihilated by Lesnar's power standing up, but Brock was (and still is) too green and got himself into a position that Mir took advantage of. Then they gave him Heath and he managed to grind out a decision because of his size and strength, very much like Josh Koscheck did against Leben in TUF season one. It wasn't exciting, but it got the job done. Lesnar is not ready for this title shot and if he beats Couture he will be destroyed by Nog.
Business wise however, it's a brilliant decision. The wrestling fans will buy it, the MMA fans will by it, and you might even get the odd casual fan of both popping in because it's two guys who are both massive in their respective fields (I'm talking about Lesnar's WWE run here, obviously).
And it's all elementry anyway, Nog's gonna own the winner.
I agree with you that Nog would own Lesnar, but I dont think he would beat Couture. Yet, I think Couture is gonna have a real tough time against Lesnar. They both have the same style, but Lesnar is younger and WAY bigger and stronger. Couture does have experience in his corner and the fact that he is just a winner...still, very tough fight. This is how I see these 4 guys against each other:
Nog beats Mirr
Nog beats Lesnar
Couture beats Nog
Couture beats Mirr
Mirr beats Lesnar
Lesnar vs Couture could go either way, but Im still leaning towards Randy.
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Do you have a reason not to give The Half Boy your vote for the Hall of Fame?
Seriously, though, if it does come down to Couture against Nogueira, I just don't who to pick. Everything tells me I should go with Big Nog, but Couture is one of those guys that you can never count out. He finds a way.
That said, so does Nogueira. When I look at this possible match-up, I have to wonder how Couture wins? You can't knock Nogueira out. He's never been finished in a fight and the high kick by Herring was as close as he's ever been. You can't submit him - that's never been done in a fight either. The only way Big Nog has lost is by decision. That's a possiblity, but its going to be tough. Big Nog's boxing isnt bad and he's not going to be that easy for Couture to control in the clinch and keep on the fence. On the ground, I don't think Couture can out-grapple Nog. Even if he can, would Couture be able to power out of submission attempt after submission attempt as Fedor did against Nogueira?
So while I know that Couture can win, I'm just not sure on how he does it. Which makes it a damned interesting fight if we do get to see it.
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And that's really what it comes down to - buyrates.
The UFC can talk about "building the sport" and all that all they want. And they do honestly give us fans some great fights. But a lot of what the UFC done is pure business. Its about buy rates and money. Which you can't blame them for - its a business.
Things like putting CB Dolloway on the main card at 91 while having Okami on the undercard. From a legit fight fan perspective, that's indefensible. But the simple fact is that Dolloway is a more sellable name due to his TUF stint and thats what wins out here.
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