horrorfan_1986

Up until a few years ago, very few triologies could match the overall quality that was Steamboat vs Flair. However, in 2004, ROH seemed to do just that with their CM Punk/Samoa Joe series. In total, the pair were in the ring for roughly 2 and a half hours in just 3 matches. Some have even claimed that the series is the current generation's Steamboat/Flair. However, which one do you feel is superior?

Flair vs Steamboat
When it comes to matches of the cable era (84-today), very few has remained talked about as much as their 1989 matches together. Dave Meltzer rated all three matches as 5 stars. CM Punk himself, has claimed to be inspired by the series. As far as both wrestlers go, they will be remembered greatly due to the matches. Having rewatch them again recently in an one night binge, it occured to me how similar each match was. All 5 matches (If you break down the 2/3 falls match into 3 falls) were roughly 20 minutes (The sole exception is the final match that went twice as long) and featured the same moves done over and over. Chop, back bodydrop, chop, Flair bump, chop, pin attempt and chop was the exact moveset used so many times. While I wouldn't consider the matches bad, I would say that they did little to really build from one match to another. One still can't dismiss the importance of the match though. The sole intent of most matches is to make a memorable match that will be remembered for years to come, they accomplished that.

CM Punk vs Samoa Joe
Right off the bat, the one thing that this series doesn't have is longterm effects. Flair/Steamboat will be celebrating it's 20 year anniversary in a matter of a few months. This series hasn't even had 5 years to reflect on it. Just as how Punk praised the original series, Ricky Steamboat has claimed to be a huge fan of the Punk/Joe series, even claiming they were some of the best matches he's seen in person. Looking back at ROH in 2004, the feud also helped keep ROH afloat during a very trying time with the whole RF scandal. Who knows, without the series, ROH may of had a much greater task of making money again. The series also depended greatly on building from one match to another. With the first match being about Punk trying to wear Joe down, Punk realized in the second match that he needed a new approach. By match 3, both men were performing moves that they knew to have worked for them before. In the end, Joe depended on knocking Punk off of his game plan to finally win the match. The biggest fault of the series for me was how poor of a job Punk did in calling moves in match one. For me personally, it took me out of the moment seeing him talk to Joe so often. Finally, Dave Meltzer gave match two (Joe VS. Punk II) the first 5 star match in America since 1997.

Which series do you prefer and why? In the years to come, which series do you feel will be more important to their companies, wrestlers and wrestling in general?

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King Steventon

I havent seen the 2/3 Falls match, but the other two Flair/Steamboat matches I thought were fantastic, yet I just couldn't give either five stars. The first one ends just as it was really heating up. It was fantastic so far then just ended quite abruptly. Then the third just had a HORRIBLE ending that made me punch my screen in anger at how they could end such an amazing match in such an anticlimactic way.

Punk/Joe on the other hand, I just loved every single match dearly. I wouldn't argue with any match being sprinkled with snowflakes. They just play off the match before so well. I'd go far enough to say Joe/Punk III better than any Flair/Steamboat match and probably one of my top 5 US matches of all time.

But as far as their influence goes, well it's kind of hard to judge right now. It will be easier to judge Joe/Punk's influence in years to come so the full extent of it's long term effect can be seen. I think the fact that the first and last matches weren't given the MELTZER FIVE STARS!~ may make them more forgotten as time goes on, as that is a big reason why the Steamboat/Flair trilogy gets talked up so much.

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KenTheKiller

For me, it's Punk/Joe. I like Steve have only seen two of the Steamboat/Flair matches, one of which was a few years ago so my memory is a bit foggy. Despite that, I remember the matches I've seen to be fantastic. But as good as they were, the Punk/Joe trilogy is just amazing to me. The calling does suck a bit, (was it in two? I believe so), but it doesn't kill the match for me. I feel like the three matches were amazing and all in the high ****s and the first being ***** in my humble opinion.

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Sam

As much as I love the Joe vs. Punk trilogy (and as much as I watch it too) I thought the Flair vs. Steamboat trilogy was better in that we got to see a victory from both parties. Steamboat won the first, their was a disputed finish for Steamboat for the second, which set up and led to the third.

I thought it was pretty clever to have Steamboat lose to Flair the exact same way Savage lost Steamboat at WMIII.

I liked that Flair turned face at the end of that match too, which set up his feud with a awesome heel in Terry Funk, which lasted for the rest of the year. Also led to Sting becoming a Horseman.

Tommy Platinum

I don't know why it is, but a lot of the so-called great matches from the 'good old days' really don't seem all that great to me. I mean, I am probably going to get crucified for this, but the Wrestlemania 3 match beween Savage and Steamboat just seemed like a normal match to me despite all the praise, and while I did enjoy the Flair/Steamboat matches (I've only seen 2 of the 3) I expected them to be WAY better after hearing all the hype. They were good matches but for me, Punk/Joe blows them out the water.

I don't know why I don't see the appeal of many classics from yesteryear... I just don't.

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New Jersey's Favorite Son

Even though i didn't watch wrestling (i wasn't alive lol) at the time of Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat matches, i have seen them all, and they were fantastic, so were the Punk vs Joe matches. But for match quality it would go to Flair/Steamboat, but since i'm counting the better matches, IMO that goes to Joe vs Punk series.

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Lord Have Mercy!

Marketh.

Ok, what? You just described the exact same thing.

To avoid this being just spam, I'll say that unfortunately I haven't seen any of the Flair/Steamboat matches but I've always made a note to try and watch them at some point.

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King Steventon

Outside of the finish, I don't see how you can not like the final Steamboat/Flair (of the trilogy). Everything about it just clicks so well. Amazing heat, intensity, great story-telling.

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horrorfan_1986

I have to admit, I'm surprised with the results of this. I felt feeling as if Joe/Punk was easily the better series and would be more important in years to come would be a controversial statement.

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Bernie

I am still yet to see the Punk vs Joe series. Now I have seen both of their work from ROH...but none of those. I beg for somebody to lead me to a link to which Punk vs Joe match is the best. Somebody will be repped. Since I seen the Flair and Steamboat series...I need to actually need to see this series. And I must say I loved the Flair vs Steamboat matches.

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