Would WCW have been successful Without Hulk Hogan?

Heyman Deciple · 11-17-2008, 03:38 AM

In early 1994 WCW had developed a very good product. Spring Stampede and Slamboree that year were 2 very strong pay per views. Flair had 2 very good matches with Ricky Steamboat, Sting had a good feud going with Vader and Ravishing Rick Rude, Steve Austin was the U.S. champion and having good matches, and Cactus Jack was doing some crazy hardcore things with Kevin Sullivan and the Nasty Boys.

Then that Summer Hulk Hogan arrived and now guys like Jim Duggan, Brutus Beefcake, and the Honkey Tonk Man were getting pushes while Steve Austin and Cactus Jack soon found themselves, further down the card and out of the company.

Now other than popping a better than normal buy rate or two I would have to say Hulk Hogan's WCW run was a failure until the N.W.O. angle. I mean we went from Flair and Steamboat main eventing pay per views to Hulk Hogan and Brutus Beefcake. That sucks.

Now while the N.W.O. angle was hot and made WCW must see TV, it was also the thing that killed the company's momentum due to the ego's involved.

So my question is would WCW been successful without Hulk Hogan?

I think so, based on early 1994 WCW was going in the right direction and some of their Pay Per Views topped WWE's in terms of quality that year.

Would WCW have ever gotten super huge, maybe not but I think WCW could have been profittable and with the lack of quality programming at WWE at the time maybe WCW could have built up some kind of buzz among wrestling fans.

What do you guys think?

horrorfan_1986 · 11-17-2008, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyman Deciple
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Now other than popping a better than normal buy rate or two I would have to say Hulk Hogan's WCW run was a failure until the N.W.O. angle. I mean we went from Flair and Steamboat main eventing pay per views to Hulk Hogan and Brutus Beefcake. That sucks.

Hogan was originally a failure? Below are the ratings for the major shows. The top one is the last one before Hogan and the bottom on is the first one after Hogan. EVERY single major show improved in buyrates once Hogan got there. In addition to that, WCW was finally able to run house shows once Hogan arrived. It was because of Hogan that WCW was able to secure WCW Nitro which allowed them to get out of Orlando every week. To say Hogan was a failure before the nWo was created is laughable. Sure, the workrate went down, but WCW was seeing some MAJOR improvements as far as money.

Fall Brawl
1993 0.46
1994 0.53

Halloween Havoc
1993 0.50
1994 0.97

Slamboree
1994 0.48
1995 0.57

Starrcade
1993 0.55
1994 0.60

Superbrawl
1994 0.50
1995 0.95

Clash of the Champions
27: 3.0
28: 4.5

Heyman Deciple · 11-17-2008, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horrorfan_1986
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Hogan was originally a failure? Below are the ratings for the major shows. The top one is the last one before Hogan and the bottom on is the first one after Hogan. EVERY single major show improved in buyrates once Hogan got there. In addition to that, WCW was finally able to run house shows once Hogan arrived. It was because of Hogan that WCW was able to secure WCW Nitro which allowed them to get out of Orlando every week. To say Hogan was a failure before the nWo was created is laughable. Sure, the workrate went down, but WCW was seeing some MAJOR improvements as far as money.

Fall Brawl
1993 0.46
1994 0.53

Halloween Havoc
1993 0.50
1994 0.97

Slamboree
1994 0.48
1995 0.57

Starrcade
1993 0.55
1994 0.60

Superbrawl
1994 0.50
1995 0.95

Clash of the Champions
27: 3.0
28: 4.5

While those numbers are impressive.

I feel saying WCW could run house shows because of Hogan is a little unfair since Hogan didn't really work house shows.

And I don't think Hogan had that much to do with the Nitro time slot, as Nitro ran on Turner owned networks and it was just more a stategy of how to compete with WWE.

And I still feel Hogan's run in the beginning was a disappointment as in the beginning the live audience was booing him and they had to add in cheer tracks to make it look like Hogan was being cheered instead of booed.

horrorfan_1986 · 11-17-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyman Deciple
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While those numbers are impressive.

I feel saying WCW could run house shows because of Hogan is a little unfair since Hogan didn't really work house shows.

And I don't think Hogan had that much to do with the Nitro time slot, as Nitro ran on Turner owned networks and it was just more a stategy of how to compete with WWE.

And I still feel Hogan's run in the beginning was a disappointment as in the beginning the live audience was booing him and they had to add in cheer tracks to make it look like Hogan was being cheered instead of booed.

He didn't need to work house shows. You saw the numbers, a lot more people were tuning in to watch WCW. Hogan just being there, bringing in more fans resulted in WCW able to run more shows.

Hogan is the cause of how they got Nitro. Afterall, the ratings were across the board better for WCW, they were running house shows and the general feeling was that WCW could finally compete with the WWE again. Had Hogan not come, the WCW wouldn't have been in the position to compete again.

Whether fans booed him or not, is besides the point. Hogan's act had gone stale years prior. And yet, those same fans that booed him was now buying tickets for events when they didn't before. He could of been booed more than anyone else, but I already proved that Hogan helped business for WCW once he came. That makes him a success, not a failure.

Heyman Deciple · 11-17-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horrorfan_1986
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He didn't need to work house shows. You saw the numbers, a lot more people were tuning in to watch WCW. Hogan just being there, bringing in more fans resulted in WCW able to run more shows.

Hogan is the cause of how they got Nitro. Afterall, the ratings were across the board better for WCW, they were running house shows and the general feeling was that WCW could finally compete with the WWE again. Had Hogan not come, the WCW wouldn't have been in the position to compete again.

Whether fans booed him or not, is besides the point. Hogan's act had gone stale years prior. And yet, those same fans that booed him was now buying tickets for events when they didn't before. He could of been booed more than anyone else, but I already proved that Hogan helped business for WCW once he came. That makes him a success, not a failure.

If the people were tuning in because of Hogan then why would they go to live events that he wasn't advertised for.

According to the Monday Night War DVD, Bischoff said he had a meeting with Ted Turner and was asked how WCW could compete with WWE and that's how Monday Nitro came about. I could be wrong but based on that I believe Nitro would have been launched with or without Hulk Hogan.

You've got me there I may have spoke too harsh or was just flat wrong but Hogan was not a failure. I'm not a Hogan hater I realise the guy is possibly the biggest name draw of all time and I do respect what he has done for the business. Maybe I was blinded by the fact that the product turned crappy when Hogan arrived with the Honkey Tonk Man and all but good product or bad product it doesn't matter he made the company more money and improved business and that's what it's all about. Hell as I kid I was excited when Hogan showed up. He just over stayed his welcome at the top of the card in 98 and 99 when business started going bad.

horrorfan_1986 · 11-17-2008, 03:12 PM

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Originally Posted by Heyman Deciple
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If the people were tuning in because of Hogan then why would they go to live events that he wasn't advertised for.

According to the Monday Night War DVD, Bischoff said he had a meeting with Ted Turner and was asked how WCW could compete with WWE and that's how Monday Nitro came about. I could be wrong but based on that I believe Nitro would have been launched with or without Hulk Hogan.

You're not getting it, when business is up, all business is up. So Hogan bringing in a larger buyrate month after month will help the company in other ways too. More people became WCW fans and wanted to see it.

You're right about what Bischoff did, he confirms it in his book (Personally, I believe the book more than the bias MNW dvd), however; look at how far WCW had come since Hogan arrived. Turner I can't see greenlighting a show against the WWE unless he knew they had the power to be better (Hogan). Look back at the battles the two companies had in the 1980's. The WWE tried to ruin WCW's major shows by booking bigger shows on the same exact night. In most cases, it ended up killing the WCW show in ratings. Hogan opened a lot of doors for WCW to finally compete, I honestly can't see Nitro being created (At least on Monday nights) if Hogan wasn't around.

Ping von Erich · 11-17-2008, 03:42 PM

WCW needed Hogan at the time.. he helped put them over the top. Where WCW faltered was pushing aside guys that were uniquely theirs, guys that made WCW's draw unique. When they brought in Hogan, guys like Vader, Sting, and Flair should have stayed bigger deals. Hogan should have sidled alongside them, instead WCW put Hogan on a pedestal and allowed him to cast a huge shadow over the guys that made WCW WCW.

So no, WCW would have stayed a firm number two without Hogan.. but due to the mishandling of Hogan, it in turn ended up being the catalyst for what eventually killed the promotion.

horrorfan_1986 · 11-17-2008, 05:30 PM

One thing people need to remember when blaming the death of WCW on Hogan is that WCW died once before. The Crockett's lost a lot of money and could no longer run WCW, so they sold it to Ted Turner (Who had showcased WCW for years on his network). The only difference from when Vince bought it is that McMahon didn't keep WCW running. By all means, Turner could of ended it.

Heyman Deciple · 11-17-2008, 05:32 PM

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Originally Posted by horrorfan_1986
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You're not getting it, when business is up, all business is up. So Hogan bringing in a larger buyrate month after month will help the company in other ways too. More people became WCW fans and wanted to see it.

You're right about what Bischoff did, he confirms it in his book (Personally, I believe the book more than the bias MNW dvd), however; look at how far WCW had come since Hogan arrived. Turner I can't see greenlighting a show against the WWE unless he knew they had the power to be better (Hogan). Look back at the battles the two companies had in the 1980's. The WWE tried to ruin WCW's major shows by booking bigger shows on the same exact night. In most cases, it ended up killing the WCW show in ratings. Hogan opened a lot of doors for WCW to finally compete, I honestly can't see Nitro being created (At least on Monday nights) if Hogan wasn't around.

I get what your saying, due to Hogan's presense it expanded the audience and made more people care about the product and the wrestlers to do more live events. It's just I've always felt the top guy should work house shows to maximize his impact. It's the same reason now I feel it's bad to have Sting as world champion in TNA and he doesn't work house shows, it makes the shows feel unimportant. It's that reason I thought WCW's house show business was weak because very rarely did you see the real top guys working house shows but I see your point as long as they make people care about the product that's all that matters but I also think there was a reason WCW had to at times give away free tickets to televised events.

For me it's very 50/50 on if Nitro would have ever came about without Hogan. I'm willing to admit without Hulk Hogan WCW could have been relegated to Saturday afternoons for the rest of their run but I could also see WCW taking a chance with the Nitro concept but I will say when Nitro debuted having Hogan on the show did help for sure by pulling in those WWE fans channel surfing and looking to see what the Hulkster was up to.

Ping von Erich · 11-17-2008, 07:16 PM

Plain and simple, he was a blessing and a curse. Yeah hordes more people turned the dial to see what was up with Hogan.. but at the same time, it all became the Hulk Hogan show. Whether it was his short red and yellow runs under the WCW banner or the over saturation of the New World Order, Hogan became the "star of the show" everyone else taking a role as a support player. Goldberg sort of broke that mold and became a star player and got the support from WCW creative.. probably explaining why anytime Hogan and Goldberg stepped into the ring together it ended up being a pretty big deal.

Like I said, WCW made the right choice bringing in Hogan.. he's Hulk Hogan for Christ sake. But the putting of him in his place should have started earlier. Bischoff drank the red and yellow cool-aide and let Hogan virtually run the place, in turn making the real WCW stars like Sting and Flair second stringers behind "The Man, Dude, Brother"

Would WCW have been successful Without Hulk Hogan?

This is a discussion on Would WCW have been successful Without Hulk Hogan? within the General Pro Wrestling : Classic & General forums, part of the Wrestling Forums category; In early 1994 WCW had developed a very good product. Spring Stampede and Slamboree that year were 2 very strong ...