Prince of Asturia Paxador

After the TNA Live discussion thread, and the amount of overkill MOTY is used in general everywhere, I started thinking on what a great match really is...

First and foremost is the match itself... This is the main part of the mix in my mind, and should be in everyone's mind... Even with the greatest match ever seen, I can easily call it shit without other factors. But within this factor, the thing I look for most is equality. I like to see a back and forth motion, no clear winner at any moment. Aside from that, I look for the amount of intensity and determination within the match type and stipulations... If it is for something big, I want it to look like they are taking it to the limit. If it is something small, like an argument of words, I really don't want to see them trying to kill each other to win, because that makes very little sense in my mind. I also only want to see the people in the match involved in the outcome. Interference automatically makes many matches crap in my opinion. It is great for setting up feuds, but the match is just done and worth nothing to me.

The next component, and also a big part in many peoples minds, is the build. How did it start? How long ago did it start? Who started it? How is it still going? These are all major questions that I look at. I believe it should grow, but according to the reason, and never at an exponential rate. How it starts can vary a lot though in my mind... Often it can start with a crappy reason, but can be greatly overshadowed by how it is still going on. Such as someone being really big in the business, and then being bumped into by someone... A crappy lead up on paper, but if the reason it keeps going after the match is because the bottom guy beat him and keeps beating him, it can be a good build up. Although to be great, it needs to have really good answers to the previous questions. It can still be good with lacking one.

The last part I look for, and some people don't look at this, is the aftermath. What happens after the match plays a role in my mind of being a great match. Did it solve the present feud? Did it add more fuel to the fire? Is the aftermath fitting for the match just had? A great match will almost always, in my mind, have the first. A good match will be the second, but unless they gave it their all and took each other to the limit, then it will not be great to me, and their is very rarely a match that will take it to the limit and keep a feud going. The aftermath is also a big part for me. If a match showed a back and forth motion and a person gets a clutch win, then it is possible for the person to have beaten to attack the winner and still keep the value of the match. But if it is a hardcore match, and someone barely wins and has trouble standing up, then I don't want to see them staggering away and then getting bursts of energy to come back to the ring and attack the loser... That makes it look like it wasn't as back and forth as the match previously looked and the match wasn't barely won as presented.

Well, that's my thoughts at the present moment... I would like to know what you consider is needed to make a good/great match and why.

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King Steventon

Great story-telling, lots of emotion, a certain amount of good *wrestling*, some big near falls and a hot finish. Done and done.

I agree with mostly everything you say. Even if before the match its obvious who the winner is, a great match will atleast give you that sense of doubt and disbelief, case in point, The Undertaker's Wrestlemania matches. I also agree with the point about intereference, unless its actually serves its purpose in the match (i.e. Panther's interefence in Eddie/Barr vs Santo/Octagon) then that devalues the match, imo. One of many reasons I disagree with HBK/Taker being a five star match.

Build up does need to be done well too. You have a crappy fued, you are going to get crappy matches. But at the same time I wouldn't say build up is necassary to have a great match, you can tell a great story simply in the match itself, case in point, the Super J-Cup tourny.

The aftermatch is also important to me, though I wouldn't say it hurts a match if theres nothing after it, its just an added bonus if there is.

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KenTheKiller

I agree with some of what you said, but I don't think you can set clear rules on what makes a match good or great because so many factors weigh in. An example being Angle/AJ. They have had a relationship with one another (so to speak) for like a year. Between AJ being Kurt's lackey, being attacked by others, being attacked by Angle, battered and bloody, false claims, etc, the feud was extremely personal. Thus why he would attack Kurt after the match, just like Kurt and others did to him. It's revenge at its' finest and leaving an exclamation point in the process.

But as said, I believe that a great match shouldn't have to be written on paper as a great match. A great match will blend it's own unique qualities to make it great. Also you have to ask at what point does a match go from good to great. Do you mean great as ***** or great as ****? Really, it's hard to judge as it comes down to personal perception.

But I guess I'd like a mix of everything. Good story telling, aftermath is an added bonus, and good build up is essential for a VERY great match, maybe not for a great match in general as I see Nigel/Black as a great match, but not very great to the point its ****1/2+

Also should I change the title to a great match? Because you say what makes a great match but you titled "What makes a good match?" lol.

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Savage_Animal

pretty much agree with everything.

i watching raven and jake roberts rf video shoot and their thought on a what a good match. raven made the point from mike graham. only do a meanful spot. selling is a big one. jake made the point of less means more. instead of taking 10 chairs shot take 2 or 3. jake said people kicking out at 2 and 2 3/4 all the rime makes it seem to predictable. kicking out at 1 or kick out before 1 not always kick out at 2. raven and jake said it's the heel that sets the pace of the match. another one is incorporating the crowd into your match. trying not to repeat the same moves your opponents.

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