Griff0rd

Feel free to criticize, agree, or add on to this rant, but here is what I see as the issues in wrestling today...

First of all to those who don't think there is an issue, you're ignorant and hopefully this will help you to gain the knowledge needed to be for lack of better words... un-ignorant. Raw hit their lowest rating last week since the pre-attitude era... there are issues. You may have the argument that wrestling isn't dependent on ratings to determine if their are "issues" or not. But no ratings means no TV deals, means harder to find and watch, means that wrestliong in general goes down the toilet. So yes there are issues.

First off let's address wrestling as a generality. It needs modernization. "But wait... they have pyro, they have Hi Def video, they have..." I know I know I know... Production is modern, wrestling... not so much. What I mean is you bring back the overall competition of it all. Use this modern production to your advantage... meaning if someone actually uses weapons to gain a win and you have post match evidence... overturn the match. Or better yet don't use weapons. Heels were heels because they cheated to win. Anyone who broke the rules was a heel. Since the Attitude era this is not the case. Heels should be able to get over as heels outside of the cheating. Get over in promos... get cocky in the ring... blast fans ...whatever.... But bring SOME legitimacy to it all and don't ignore the fact that we have evolved with wrestling over the years and are tired of unclean wins due to outside interferance and use of weapons. We know there is replay and we know there is the ability for management to overturn calls. So use it. Heels can still be heels and we will have what we need... clean wins. THat will make your wrestlers get over more than anything else. And limiting weapons to predetermined hardcore matches will bring back some of that awe factor that they just lack now. When it was new and it was ued sparingly it was effective and great... now they are vanilla.

With that being stated WWE... Please stick to legit in ring action. You have a different pace than TNA, we realize this and many actually prefer it. So make your matches legit and make more of them. Wanna know how that'll work for you? Think of what Shawn Michales vs John Cena on Raw did... amazing match and many MANY people who saw it can remember it as one of the better Raws in recent history... Why? Because it was good wrestling with a clean finish...as it always should be. Vince McMahon has done too many of these shock and awe moments to try to regain viewers that it ultimately is causing the company to unravel. People then grow tired of it because there is a lack of good competition, and we just can't get shocked anymore... we are numb to it. Instead put quality matches and quality programing on. Fix yourself for the long run instead of patching yourself up here and there and eventually sinking.

TNA... oh TNA you ae the mistress that could be. You are that really hot chick that isn't as hot as she should be. You used to be hot in high school, and you dress up well, but overall you are letting yourself go. You are on to something with this Veteran storyline and making it a place for new talent to get over. Just don't sully it all with weapons and cheating. Let then young talent win clean and let the vet win clean. There is more drama when the competition has a more legitimate feeling. You have some of the best young talent in the busness... Samoa Joe could be the biggest thing in a long time... let him win clean. ANd when he loses let him lose clean. The temper should be what beats him, not a bat. TNA is in a place right now that has them at an advantage. They are about to go into a HUGE storyline and they can make this change subtle and work it into it. Clean wins gets their young and older talent over. It builds great feuds and if it boils over... let them end it in a hardcore match, a cage match.... but wait till then and let them build to that point in competition. Tell your stories in the ring and don't follow the mold of a sinking ship and make it more entertainment than competition.

This is what need to be fixed in my opinion in order to fix wrestling... because trust me, it's broken. UFC is doing well because it is competition driven, not just storyline. TNA and all those companies getting up and going should follow this mold rather than that of what has failed and is beginning to fail again.

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DD

Great post Griff. I agree on alot of things on so many levels. The major factor that I agree on is the clean finish. For FAR too long, Vince and Russo have been trying to shock and awe us with these unconventional finishes. Survivor Series 97 was shock and awe because is was quasi shoot work. Now both men want to constantly blow us away. The problem is they do it so much that nothing is out of the ordinary. Even last week when HBK comes out and says "It's gonna be a laaaaaadder match!!!!!" I, and most people were already expecting HBK, expecting a Ladder match and expecting Jericho too look on as if the world is stacked against him.

One of the best heel runs in........well since I can ever recall was the Triple H heel run from 98 to 2000. Dude was on a role. He would actually beat people clean as a heel. Granted sometimes some shady stuff would play into his victories but more often than not he just beat the hell out of someone and left AGAIN as champion. This used to drive people insane. They so wanted the Rock or Austin to become champion they would scream at their tv screens. When Jericho won his first title to have it overturned by the McMahon-Helmsely regime people went insane.

Now a heel is a whiny, sneaky bitch. Edge can't pull off a clean win ever it seems. Randy Orton shows shades of HHH's clean winning ability but lacks that overall something that HHH has to get himself incredibly over as a heel. But that is besides the point.

Yeah, wrestling is jacked. I find myself not paying that much attention to it when its on. I can predict pretty much everything that is about to happen the next 5 minutes. You can tell how the whole show is pretty much going to go.

I believe to sell this to the people again long term some things need to change. These few things come to mind.

1. Well thought out, long term storylines are what need to be put in place. Plan out a map. Put point a, then point z. Put say Matt Hardy at point a, then say "Ok, by point Z (say WM2009) we want Matt Hardy to be considered a great ECW champion and contender for the Heavyweight title. Then map out how he would have to get there. Who is going to interact with him? What will there bump be? How do you get the person over that he just beat to keep both men looking strong?

2. Stables. By forming stables you are insured that you can build storylines where if someone gets injured long term one of their stablemates can jump right in and take their spot. Storyline doesnt have to die.

3. A time honored tradition in wrestling seems to have promotions shove wrestlers down our throats when we dont want them over. If crowds are reacting to a guy, push him. Dont push him based off how many T-Shirts he sells. The people that buy t-shirts off wweshopzone.com are not the people buying your PPV's, going to shows and marking out for the product. I personally have owned 2 t-shirts my whole life. 1 was a Jerichoholic shirt because it was basic and nondescriptive and the other was an Eddie tribute T-shirt for charity.

4. Let the wrestlers have more input on their character direction. The best wrestlers have always said they became the most sucessful when they got to be themselves with the volume turned way up. Gimmicks are great......if the wrestler themselves believe in it too.

Overall it was a great read Griff and I wanted to put a couple thoughts down too.

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factum1

Hi guys. Hi griff, Hi Diamond.

I agree in some matter with both of you guys.
Though this time around in my life i wouldn't mind the WWE, suffering by the mistakes they're doing. I want the best for wrestling and the WWE making good change's now wouln't work for me, because i want the WWE to fall a bit and be challenged by T.N.A. For the better of wrestling. I'm not a hater of the WWE, don't get me wrong. I been a WWE fan since a little kid and when it was threatened by W.C.W. i wanted it to prevail. I just figure the WWE will turn it up once it has gotten a little scare from the competition. Plus it'll be very good for T.N.A.


O.K. with that been said, i also enjoy clean finishes and like heels to win without cheating. I aslo don't like heels cursing at the fans just to get some heel heat. Especially in some occasions. Like when Edge was once in his home town of Canada, fans were with him, this was created a great atmosphere in the arena, but it felled apart onced Edge went against his own home town crowd. I feel they should be cheered if fans want to.Example to this evreyone hate's the laker's and the yankees, but they aren't booed in their home town; are they? But this makes them even get more hatred out of other fans from other countries.

I believe there has to be balance in everything, there times where there should be cleans wins and times where there shouldn't. It can be a period where heels win mostly by cheating and a period where they win mostly without cheating. And a period where they do both. The thing is to notice when things have become too stale and to common for viewers and make the change.

I do understand the WWE problems in making faction's. Many times the WWE want's to create a variety of different matches, with different opponent's and they feel the need to brake some stable's to be able to do them. but now that their mixing up the talent from all three brands, giving them a better opporunity to make a new faction without thinking on ways to breaking them to make new feuds between their own faction member's.

About how they should do certain angles',stories or matches.

1. The matches should be made more realistic, stop all the matches going over 20 minutes all the time, even between two great wrestler's. He a wrestler performs a great powerful move let him win.

2. Stop victories coming from a finishing move all the time. I seen tons of mathces and i know the guy ain't going to win at least till he tries to perform one of his finishing move. When they start attempting their finisher's than you start believing there can be a pin.

3.Lets wrestler's celebrate their wins, i' get mad after a victory a wrestler's wins a World Title and starts walking out the ramp.

4.Let wrestler kick out to one count, even today i saw a wrestler kick out at one, butmichael Cole called it a 2. ther's nothing wrong with that.it makes it more realistic.

These are some things out of many,that i always preach to my friends when talking about wrestling. Wrestling might be fake, but they shouldn't remind us all the time.

King Steventon

I'll keep this short...

Random thoughts on wrestling this year:-

-WWE has been very up and down booking-wise. Some good stuff, some bad stuff. Same wrestling-wise, they've produced some really good stuff and some let-downs. The HIAC is my pick for most overated match this year and Edge continues to be overated to the moon.

-TNA has just been apalling in both booking and wrestling. I've enjoyed one or two (maybe) matches from the last year. I'm convinced half their roster is useless and Angle still owns them all.

-ROH has still been indecline, moreso in terms of booking, but they's still managed to produce the best wrestling in the US this year. Aries/Nigel is my MOTY. Nigel has just been God-like this year.

-CHIKARA is quickly becoming one of the most overated promotions ever.

-The best wrestling is coming from Japan. And even then there in only ONE company in the world whose booking I would say is great.

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RaiZ-R

This is a great thread. But most of the points that I would make have already been made.

More clean victories.

Less roll-up wins, interferance, and cheating, etc...

More stables in WWE (TNA not so much as it has quite a few, and is about to go into a storyline that will split the locker in half)

I especially agree with Danny's view of the booking. Make it more long term, look at where you are and where you wanna end up, then get us there.

DD

This thread is a perfect example of what is wrong with this forum lately.

This was one of the best, well written threads this forum has seen in months and we get 4 fucking replies.

If I see one more "Who has the best ring entrance?" or "Do you think Cena is kool?" threads I am going to fucking hang myself. No wonder there is a complete lack of participation. Nobody gives a fuck, and when a good thread actually does come up it gets totally missed in between all the half assed, 2 lined threads.

Just thought I would point that out.

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Silleh Willeh

What they need to do is listen to their fans instead of merchandise sales, they should be able to see there own problems instead of letting Wrestler A's sales go ahead off Wrestler B's talent which infuriates me to say the least.

My look at today's Promotions

WWE- Though having a great roster they don't utillise them enough thus making there project dire. In the next year they badly need to turn Cena heel.

TNA- In 2005 they looked like world beaters but now they don't because off them getting one man as booker and that man is sadly Vince Russo yes the man that single handley killed WCW, is now killing TNA, with his still stupid attempt off making titles nothing as props and making stupid gimmick matches which fail quicker than the Titanic and the Iceberg. They need to get rid of Russo and focus their shows on the new stars, not the old ones.

Though I have only put two, I have done this because there is no real competition anywhere else sadly it might be the formation of Bischoff's promotion which changes the wrestling stage for years to come. Hopefully people pull there head out there ass & try something different!

Balla

Well.. as far as i see it.. WWEs whole "lets focus on the kids k" thing is ridiculous... i mean is it not rated PG14... :\ why focus on a younger audience if it is rated PG14.. (it may not be, if not my mistake) however, i think vince is losing A LOT of loyal fans by doing this, and making it so childish, i know i haven't had the urge to watch it in months, and lets take Santino for example, "who should he face at cyber sunday"

did you hear the pops (or lack there of) for those legends? because none of the kids fucking know them, it's sad..

King Steventon

Yeah, I really don't get the point in making it overly PC. It's wrestling, the main premise is grown men beating each other up, how can you try and sugarcoat it? Kids will watch it if its violent or not.

The one thing that's annoyed me about the direction (other than the God-awful "JBL is poopy" shit) is the ban on blading. I'll use the Hell In A Cell as a perfect example of why wrestlers should be allowed to blade. You have this uber-intense hate-filled match, in the "career-shortening" stipulation, with both men beating the fuck out of each other countless times with weapons.... but no blood. What the fucking fuck? How can you have a match with that much intensity and fire and no blood? The match sucked and that was just one reason.

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Jayman

Very good observations and thoughts from everyone, and props to Griff for thinking up a good discussion topic.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o
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I’d just like to add my two cents, and I will stick to my thoughts on the current state of WWE as I do not watch enough TNA programming to accurately comment on it.
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I definitely agree that the state of WWE is poor. Yes, the ratings are poor, but overall I dismiss that as an excuse because the way tv is rated these days with TiVo’s and DVR’s, etc…it isn’t as accurate anymore. We all have heard that wrestling is cyclical, however, I am really starting to think that isn’t the case. Wrestling is popular when the product they are showing is entertaining to fans. Back in the 50’s and 60’s, wrestling was part of the culture. It was exciting because of the athleticism many of the wrestlers had, and some characters began being very flamboyant and had some “character” to them. In the 80’s, Hulk Hogan sparked the industry again with his “Hulkamaniacs”, his 24-inch pythons, and his eat your vitamins, etc. Shortly after he left, the product got stale and as a result, its popularity declined. The WWE Attitude Era was sparked in the late 90’s by characters like “Stone Cold” Steve Austin, The Rock, and Degeneration-X. The face of the business changed completely, and that sparked renewed interest in fans.
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Now, in the 2000’s, what can we say as fans that is “fresh and exciting” about today’s product? A new direction for the industry? No, not really, which is why the business isn’t riding high at the moment. Instead, the past 5 years plus have given us things such as: return of Hulk Hogan (yawn), multiple returns and reunions of Degeneration-X (yawn) as early as a few weeks ago, and possibly a return of Stone Cold to WWE Programming during the next Pay-Per-View, Cyber Sunday. Yeah, he’ll probably win if they go by the votes. What should this be telling WWE? You are hanging onto the past, and as a result, you cannot look forward to new and innovate things.
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I forgot who said it above, but the industry needs to change, not just the characters. We need more clean finishes, yes. We need wrestlers kicking out at a one-count, not always a two-count, yes. Characters that fans either love or hate. John Cena has been booed for years, yet he still acts like he’s the crowd’s favorite. WWE needs to listen to their fans more; if Cena is booed, then just turn him already and let us hate him! We are not only booing because we don’t like him, but also because you’re shoving his goody-goodyness down our throats!
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I’d also like to see the return of a big stable. Obviously it’s more difficult because top talent is spread out among 3 brands, but that’s okay. Speaking of brands….keep them separate!!! Give them each their own identity, and only have them mingle or have matches together during the Royal Rumble matchup or Wrestlemania. I don’t want to see Triple H reuniting with HBK on RAW. Triple H is the Smackdown World Champion, keep him over there!! Why is Triple H even AT RAW in the first place?!?! Shouldn’t he be at home, like the rest of the Smackdown superstars? Why was Mike Adamle in a meeting with Shane McMahon during the only 2 hours of the week he is on TV? Why would Shane schedule a meeting with him during RAW? That makes no sense.
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Give us storylines we can believe, WWE. Why was Kane pissed off so much at Rey? Way to blow a first time feud between those two by nonsense. Also, give us more comedy! Santino is gold, yes, but part of the reason I love watching WWE is because it used to make me laugh. SCSA was hilarious (even as a heel), The Rock was gold, Kurt Angle, Val Venis, Edge and Christian…now we have Santino, who is gold, yes. But the Great Khali kissing Lillian Garcia and wanting to have fun doesn’t make me laugh – it makes me cringe. Seeing that oaf smile doesn’t mean I’m going to like him now. Give me more funny characters, and funny backstage segments…but not TOO many. I do enjoy (good) wrestling matches from time to time. Don’t have a match on RAW, Smackdown, or ECW unless there is a reason for those two to be meeting. EVERY match should further a storyline for one or more superstar. Don’t show Great Khali vs. 3 jobbers. Why do I care about that?
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I wish I had a lot of positives to talk about to balance this post out…but I don’t. I’ve missed the last few episodes of RAW, and I really am fine with that. On Tuesday morning after I read the RAW report, my friend usually calls me (who will miss episodes of RAW sometimes as well) and ask, “So, did I miss anything exciting last night on RAW?”
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And my reply is usually the same.
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“No.”<o
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