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15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

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Old 10-09-2009, 12:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

- The Hell In A Cell stipulation

- Rey Mysterio

- The ROH In Japan Shows

- Dean Malenko

- Best Arn/Tully tag?

- Jimmy Jacobs

- Best chain/European/catch-as-catch-can style worker in the US?

- Jack Evans

- Who was better in the Rockers: Michaels or Jannetty?

- Best "strong man" wrestler to day?
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

- Rey Mysterio
I find him annoying. I cannot see how he can keep getting put over as the underdog when he wins most of his matches and can beat his opponents with a bloody top rope splash, preceded by a weak-looking shin to the face. I also hate how convenient it is that his opponents keep falling directly into the middle rope from any move from any possible angle.

- The ROH In Japan Shows
Some quality matches in there like the first Davey/Roderick match and the Kota/KENTA vs Marufuji/Nakajima tag. The quiet crowds really ruin the atmosphere, though.

- Jimmy Jacobs
Totally fucked up by booking. After the BJ feud and Jimmy Loves Lacey angle, he lost every feud he was in and most of his matches. He is living proof that a win over Danielson now and then does NOT give you instant credibility if it isn't bloody followed up on. He's a decent wrestler, but he was involved in far too many brawling matches.

- Best chain/European/catch-as-catch-can style worker in the US?
I don't know much about the style, but Claudio has shown to be excellent at chain-wrestling in his first two matches with Dragon last year.

- Jack Evans
Last year I found him annoying because every other move of his was a flip of some sort, but now that he's been in Mexico for more than a year (I think), I miss him. He had a good presence, the token midcard highflyer, he was charismatic and almost always got a good reaction. I would gladly trade the guy in his position right now, Sonjay Dutt, to get Jack back.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

The Hell In A Cell stipulation
Although there were problems with it (like the fact that it's primary purpose was destroyed in the first ever match of its kind) it was once a great stip. It would be difficult to build up any other stip to be as intimidating and atmospheric as the Cell. Thanks to guys like Taker, Michaels and especially Mick Foley it had become the ultimate feud ender, and the most brutal match in wrestling. It could easily sell a PPV. Even when wrestlers stopped leaving for the cell, something the match became famous for, it was always a huge match and usually delivered. In recent years they began to run too many HIAC matches, and especially in the PG era, they shouldn't be done at all. It was a terrible decision to bring in a new cell design and an even worse decision to book a HIAC PPV. Total overkill and the match just isn't the same without blood. A once great gimmick has been destroyed.

Rey Mysterio
While I can see what Mark means about his perpetual underdog role despite getting so many wins, and especially the convenience of the 619 setup, I feel these are minor criticisms. A guy of his size is always going to look like a total underdog facing most guys, so that is to be expected. Sometimes his booking is annoying, but as a wrestler, he is pretty great. He's had a few off years but in 2009 he has consistently produced quality stuff and is easily one of the best wrestlers in WWE.

Jimmy Jacobs
No expert on the guy, but from what I've seen he has a very good character and is very entertaining in brawls. I've heard him referred to as the new Raven and I can see where people are coming from. I've not seen much recent stuff though. I don't follow ROH much anymore.

Best chain/European/catch-as-catch-can style worker in the US?
Shawn Michaels because JR always says it on commentary.
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Jack Evans
Charismatic guy and easily one of the more entertaining spotmonkeys I've seen. Some of the stuff he's done is pretty scary.
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

- The Hell In A Cell stipulation
A quick way to get a few extra buys. From the original match, it's been a stipulation that didn't live up to what it promised to do. One reason why I loved CM Punk vs Taker and Taker vs Boss Man is because they didn't rely on the same cliche spots typically done in HIAC's. I feel as if the match should only be done in the last resort during the course of a long feud. I'm talking about maybe 4-5 since 1997.

- Rey Mysterio
One of the better junior heavyweights in history. Despite having some bad years due to injuries, he has managed to bounce back several times and continue to be a top wrestler.

- The ROH In Japan Shows
Seems pretty pointless to me. How much did it cost to go there compared to doing a show on the East coast? It's nice to see the mix of ROH stars and puro ones, but it still doesn't seem like the responsible thing to do money wise.

- Dean Malenko
Extremely talented mat worker who was limited by his personality. Ironically, from accounts of other wrestlers, Malenko is supposed to have been very entertaining outside of the ring. It was a shame to see him pushed out of the picture so quickly in the WWE.

- Best Arn/Tully tag?
Maybe it's because my coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but I'm having a mind block at the moment. The first one that popped out to me was vs The Hart Foundation at Summerslam 1989. If think about this for a few minutes, I'm sure I can think of a better one though.

- Jimmy Jacobs
I loved his Huss gimmick. To this day, he and BJ Whitmer are my favorite ROH tag team. I give credit to Jimmy for always trying to reinvent himself. I really wish he'd come back to ROH soon though.

- Best chain/European/catch-as-catch-can style worker in the US?
If giving the chance in matches, I'd say William Regal. However, you can't show your skills if a match isn't set up in that sort of way.

- Jack Evans
Extremely spotty, even though he doesn't need to be. I've really enjoyed Evans when he showed more mat skills than usual. The break dancing gimmick was a great way to stand out in ROH in 2004-2005. A fun comedic wrestler, but I'd rarely pay to see him wrestler. I personally love the matches with Dragon. Seeing Danielson stretch Evans in unnatural ways is just a lot of fun.

- Who was better in the Rockers: Michaels or Jannetty?
For awhile I would say Jannetty. He was the unofficial leader of the team and helped the matches flow well. Around 1990, Michaels was really coming into his own as a wrestler and was getting very over. So overall, I don't think there was one better Rocker. It just varied by year.

- Best "strong man" wrestler to day?
I can't think of a single current one that stands out from the rest.
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

Jim, what did you think of the Taker/Lesnar HIAC?
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

I've really missed these...

The Hell In A Cell stipulation
-Have no problem with the concept, though since the HIAC is mostly restricted to staying inside of the cage with no bloodshed, I don't see why they couldn't just do these potential feud-enders with a regular old Cage Match. Then again, they book so many Cage Matches that it's become nothing of any real importance nowadays. Eventually, the same will be said for this HIAC PPV. Sure, it's something the casual fan could look forward to, but if the quality is going to be what we saw on this last PPV, count me out. My favorite HIAC is Trips vs Cactus Jack.

Rey Mysterio
-One of the best workers of 2009. Shame about the whole drug fiasco.

The ROH In Japan Shows
-Not quite sure why they went. It had to cost boatloads. Still, it produced some good matches.

Dean Malenko
-While I never really considered him as one of my favorite wrestlers, I did always look forward to his matches on Nitro... who wouldn't after the mindfuck-fest that made up the other 95% of the show?

Jimmy Jacobs
-My favorite wrestler after I got into the Indy Scene in 2005-2006. His feud with Whitmer is still one of my all-time favorites. Such a great character and story-teller. I think had the knee injury after the Whitmer cage match not happened he would have been one of the top guys in ROH. Sure, he came back with the AOTF and for a while he was one of the top guys (including some great tag matches with Black) but it all went way downhill after a while. It's depressing that one of my favorites is almost non-existent in the wrestling scene nowadays. He's a good wrestler (and not just a brawler) but he was never really given the chance, even after wins over Danielson that would make you think so. Eventually every other match of his became some No Disqualification affair and why put his body through all that bullshit with no payoff in the long term? Blaaaaaaargh, I'm really pissed. I wished he could be given another chance, though I am not liking his new look.

Jack Evans
-I love his character and personality. When he actually worked a match instead of trying to get as many flashy spots in as possible, he could really put on a show. I loved his openers with Richards at Death Before Dishonor VI and Glory by Honor V. I'd like to see him back in the US someday.

Who was better in the Rockers: Michaels or Jannetty?
-Michaels became pretty good over time, but I enjoyed Jannetty more.

Best "strong man" wrestler today?
-Does Daisuke Sekimoto count? If so, then him.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 15. Thoughts on... (Back BY DEMAND)

- The Hell In A Cell stipulation: When done right, this is usually one of the definitive ends to a pretty important storyline due to the sheer brutality of the match. I really can't say that anymore after the latest promo. I mean, you can't really top the original between Micheal's and Taker and even the Mankind/Taker one but after that, people expecting some kind of insane high spot and sheer blood just because of the match itself but with the way times have changed those are unreal expectations to set. Now would blood add more drama to the match? Most likely yes but there's more ways you can add drama into the match without adding in the insane amounts of blood. I like the match itself but I don't put the bar too high that I'd be disappointed because of something that should have happened or could have didn't. I'd love to see what future matches this one gimmick can conjure up when the Undertaker's and the Batista's and the HHH's and HBK's of the world aren't around anymore.

- Rey Mysterio: Was really having one of the best 2009's currently if it hadn't been for this most recent drug relapse. I don't think there's really ever been a time in Rey's career where he's had this much success that didn't feel conveluted because of somebodies death or that it was hampered by injury, which, because of Mysterio's size often happened during the first few years he really started to go places in the WWE. I liked some of his stuff in WCW and never really got to see alot of his early ECW work but I think to me, what really put Rey over the top ironically enough was the storyline with Eddie Guerrero in 2005 over Dominic. Rey really got the opportunity to shine so much with somebody you could feel he really felt comfortable with and you had to of known Rey was taking the special vitamins to look that bulky back then and a bit chubby compared to now. Mysterio's 2009 year to me was one of the most improved considering the awful run on Raw where he really was displaced. I'm glad he's on SmackDown though. Where he belongs.

- The ROH In Japan Shows: It just seemed to me that the appeal of going to Japan in Cary Silkin's mind was one that he felt could draw alot of DVD revenue because of the guys they could have used. It was just sadly too big of a budget disaster though for ROH to make that kind of made me wish they ran more often in England back when the ROH Pure title was around.

- Dean Malenko: Incredible technician based wrestler than really innovated one of my favorite submission maneuvers of all time, the Texas Cloverleaf as one of many many moves in his arsenal. Its almost like as soon as the light on the camera was turned on, Malenko would be voided of any personality and just came off like a dull robot.

- Best Arn/Tully tag?: Just off the top of my head, I really loved the War Games match they were able to take apart of War Games back in the NWA days with the 4 Horsemen to take on Dusty & Crew and in the WWF, I'd probably say their matches with the Rockers and Hart Foundation in 89 really made for some fun matches that I pretty throughly enjoyed.

- Jimmy Jacobs: One of the very gifted workers on the independent circuit before injuries and unfortunately backstage dispute killed his run in ROH in 2009. I really saw the end of Jimmy Jacobs feud with BJ Whitmer back when I was getting into ROH after watching that Cage match of theirs and whether it was his feud with Cabana over Lacey or the start of the AOTF, Jimmy had the gift of gab that really can't be understated in the world of pro wrestling. Now I haven't heard or even seen much of Jimmy's work since leaving ROH early in 09. I saw he got a new haircut and look in Texas recently but other than that, nothing of significant note other than possibly leaving the wrestling biz for a while. I'll have to get an interview with him.

- Best chain/European/catch-as-catch-can style worker in the US?: Some names off the top of my head can be Claudio out of Chikara, Bryan Danielson can really go with the best of em' Shawn Michaels and William Regal, two of Danielson's biggest influences really have had some great career. Going with any style can really add to the creativity and versatility of that performer and can still display that excellent wrestling ability. It really is alot of fun to watch when done correctly.

- Jack Evans: Very very overrated in my assertion from some of the members here. He was flashy to the point where he'd spin so much he'd blind you with how sloppy he could be. Now that he's in Mexico, I really hope he's added a new dimension and car work a more fluid pace before expecting him to eventual fuck up a spot and break a leg or ankle literally. Jack has really never displayed the greatest mic skills in the world but if there's one thing that Jack has been able to do and get over is his flexibility and selling attributes to help showcase why he really is the ghetto gumby.

- Who was better in the Rockers: Michaels or Jannetty?: I'll go out on a limb and say Michaels. While Jannetty was the steady leader and veteran of the squad, you could tell that when HBK was ready to break out that Jannetty just wasn't really cut out to develop anything further. I think you have to look at how well Michaels could get over and display that charisma that Marty could never quite seem to grasp. While Marty might have been the more solid wrestler of the squad that eventually helped to get Michaels over, HBK was the rose that was waiting to bloom on his own. And he did just that with the Sweet Chin Music and sending Jannetty through the glass which showed how much heat he could get in what would go on to spark great things post Rockers days for Michaels and not so much for Marty unfortunately.

- Best "strong man" wrestler to day?: Maybe you can count Claudio in this discussion, possibly Mark Henry if he can move or in the ways that he is booked, the Big Show. You can't say that about Matt Morgan or Rob Terry (Who both are awful) in TNA and I don't think anybody in ROH aside from hero, Claudio and maybe a few others are even over 6'2-6'4. I'd probably have to give the nod to Castagnoli because he's in excellent shape, built to be a pro wrestler and built to own as a pro wrestler as well.
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