This is a discussion on 14. Thoughtsssss onnnnnnnnn...... within the General Pro Wrestling : Classic & General forums, part of the Wrestling Forums category; - Benoit vs Booker - Best Of 7 Series: WCW version or WWE version?
- Shelton Benjamin
- Japanese wrestlers ...
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- Benoit vs Booker - Best Of 7 Series: WCW version or WWE version? I've only seen a couple of the WCW ones, have not seen all of them and I don't even remember any of the WWE ones although I did see all of them so I really couldn't pick between the two.
- Shelton Benjamin: A great athlete who is one of my favorites. It's just a shame that the guy cannot improve his mic skills and just stays the same over the years. WWE gives him titles but he just doesn't fill out the role good enough really to ever get pushed anywhere else. He's been in the same ditch for alot of years now.
- Japanese wrestlers in ROH over the years: I've really enjoyed the Japan folk coming over to ROH. I pretty much always love all the matches that the Japanese wrestlers have in ROH. One day I would like to see Misawa and Kobashi come back. I wouldn't mind seeing like maybe Misawa versus Danielson. I think that would be a good match. Maybe have Kobashi go against Roderick, chop battles.
- Eugene: One of WWE's worst inventions...
- AJ Styles on the independent scene: I've enjoyed watching the matches he had in PWG, ROH and whatnot. I haven't seen too much of his independent work.
- Title Tournaments: I enjoy title tournaments for the most part. WWE hasn't had one for a long time that I remember.
- Over-the-top angles: WWE has had alot of them in recent years. Personally I think the most recent one would be the whole Edge/Vickie shit. Just really annoying dumb stuff. I guess all WWE storylines have become that way with me since I've moved on to better things like watching ROH and Japanese wrestling. I hardly ever watch WWE. I read the results and if anything interests me I just will download that specific match or promo, which is rare.
- ECW (the WWE brand): I dislike how they still call it ECW but I like the talent showcased for the most part except a few guys. I like how they actually treat the ECW title like it's a championship and not a hot potato. From some matches I've seen over the past couple years, alot of good wrestling is showcased. For example the Swagger/Christian match on ECW back in like what, February/March?
- KENTA: One of my favorite wrestlers, I enjoy pretty much any KENTA match I watch. I'd love to see KENTA versus CM Punk, that's a dream match for me.
Benoit vs Booker - Best Of 7 Series: WCW version or WWE version?
The WWE one was a massive failure. Not only did Booker get hurt and couldn't compete in the last three, but Orton won the series for him only to have Benoit win the belt at No Way Out. Bad luck and poor booking. The WCW series was brilliant and was one of the brightest spots in the summer.
- Shelton Benjamin
Massively underrated and misused. If the WWE would stop the start-stop pushes, he could actually stay over. He should have been a main eventer by now, but the WWE has blown it.
- Japanese wrestlers in ROH over the years
I enjoyed it more when it was a rare event. Kobashi only coming in for a weekend was incredibly more important than seeing KENTA at most shows in 2006.
- Eugene
Great gimmick to establish Dinsmore. The only real problem with it was that they kept it going for too long. Had they ended it with a Eugene heel turn (Revealing it was all staged by himself?) he could of added several years to his career.
- AJ Styles on the independent scene
Not nearly as good as he was in TNA. The bigger the star he became in TNA, the more he phoned it in with the indy's.
- Title Tournaments
Depends on how they're booked. Long matches with logical booking can had a lot of prestige to the belt. Sadly, most title tournaments are half ass and just ends up being a disaster. The best way to do one is to not book it all in one night.
- Over-the-top angles
They're over-the-topish? It just depends on how they're booked. If it's entertainingly cheesy, it's fine. However, ones like Mae Young giving birth to a hand was just a waste of TV time.
- ECW (the WWE brand)
Terrible in the beginning, but once they started removing the old ECW elements out of it, the brand improved greatly. Very well done one hour show.
- KENTA
Even with his sporadic appearances, he's been one of the better wrestlers in ROH history. At the same time, he's been one of the more entertaining puro stars this decade.
- Benoit vs Booker - Best Of 7 Series: WCW version or WWE version?
From what I've seen, the WCW version.
- Shelton Benjamin
A wasted talent. Not that he's exactly being buried or forgotten. But he seems like he's never going to take that next step because he lacks the mic skills. It would take either a gimmick change, or setting him up with a mouthpiece - a manager or even just a valet who can talk for him. But since the WWE doesn't seem to do managers and valets anymore (with a few lower card exceptions), that doesn't happen and Benjamin just keeps on floating at that same level.
- Japanese wrestlers in ROH over the years
Love it. Its made for some great matches. If its made for some crap ones, I haven't seen them yet. But I love that ROH features an aspect of pro wrestling that many fans don't see much of otherwise.
- Eugene
Hatred is a word I use rarely, but that was close. I very strongly disliked the whole deal. Just a terrible gimmick and storyline. I don't concider myself a very sensitive viewer or fan - quite the opposite, in most situations - but that one just had nothing I liked. That was a period where I only watched the WWE sporadically, and quite honestly, that angle was one that me from watching more frequently. And the problem was that it didn't really leave anywhere for Dinsmore to go afterward - unless he starts wearing a mask, he's always going to be the simpleton character.
- AJ Styles on the independant scene
Haven't seen enough to say decisively, but I have liked what i have seen.
- Title Tournemants
Iffy. They have the potential to be pretty good or a big waste of time. Depends very much on the booking and circumstances. I prefer tournaments for either a specific award (Grand Prix style) or maybe number one contender status.
- Over-the-top angles
I'm guessing you're referring to some of the WWE stuff... So many of them that the WWE does simply turn me off and make me not want to watch. I'm not 11 years old anymore, I guess. Even the current "Santina" stuff, while funny, is not something I want to see in the way they are presenting it. The WM battle royal should have been a way to showcase the Divas, and instead it becomes a joke. And a segment that should have been on TV wasted a bunch of time on a PPV.
- ECW (the WWE brand)
I really disliked the idea at first, but I like the way they've been going. I like that it actually feels a bit different than the other brands because the focus is on what goes in the ring, not the stories. Plus, its not the same old main eventers that they've had since 2004. I would like to see them differentiate things a bit further - and possibly change the name - but I'll take it.
- KENTA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
A favorite. Love his work in Noah. Love his stuff in ROH. Even love his early stuff from All Japan, the little of it that there is. I might be biased because of the Kenta-KENTA relationship (and Kobashi is a favorite as well), but KENTA is just consistently entertaining in almost any match I watch with him in it. Reminds me of Danielson in that way.
- Benoit vs Booker - Best Of 7 Series: WCW version or WWE version?
Enjoyed both though the WWE version suffered big time from bad luck. WCW version had great matches and booking, and was the series that made Booker a star.
- Shelton Benjamin He was great in 2005... since then, what? Zero personality, extremely spotty in the ring and just generally quite awful. I feel like people only like him because he was great in the past, when seem to think that athletisism = wrestling ability. For a guy who's gimmick is pretty much based around him being flawless in the ring he sure is sloppy. One of the few guys going these days I genuinely see no redeeming features about.
- Japanese wrestlers in ROH over the years I'll break it down a bit:
- The ASE tag with Tanaka and Ohtani was pretty meh.
- The Kobashi weekend was simply amazing. Probably my favourite ROH singles and tag match right there.
- The first Dragon Gate tag was pretty great and one of the best matches those guys have produced ever, since then they have pretty much declined in quality, though they still go all out for the American audiences.
- KENTA had some great matches there, probably some of the best of his career, others were pretty miss. Didn't care for most of his "dream matches".
- Didn't care for either of the Misawa matches. He visibily didn't care, though he gets props for taking that GTS.
- Actually havent seen much of Marufuji in ROH. Seems pretty hit and miss.
- Morishima was a mixture of good and bad. Had a few great defences, though the only amazing stuff came from Danielson as his opponent.
- Thought Go's ROH run was pretty dissapointing because they BOOKED HIM AS A HEEL WTF. He had a few hidden gems but could have been a lot better.
- Only saw the Ibushi tag and it was pretty fun. Like the DG guys he benefitted from the US audience not seeing much of him before and he went all out.
- The KO matches were alright. The tags were pretty good, though hardly MOTYC level.
- Eugene
Mindless dribble of a gimmick and pretty mediocre wrestler to boot.
- AJ Styles on the independant scene From 2002-03 he was easily one of the best wrestlers in the world. I'd say his ROH work from that era was as good as his TNA work ever was, maybe better. Havent seen much from his return after that, though I liked the Street Fight with Rave, even if it was too short and had an awful finish.
- Title Tournemants Need to be done more. So many advantages can come about from them e.g. creating new stars, adding prestige, great matches, fued starting/ending/progressing, etc
- Over-the-top angles Usually awful. As long as they stay within the realsm of reality, but stuff like Vince's limbo being blown up was pretty insulting to the intelligence. Don't mind them as long as they lead to something, most stuff in the 'E doesn't though, and usually revolves around non-wrestlers like the McMahons. Most angles can work if they lead to WRESTLING.
- ECW (the WWE brand) Started out all over the place but these days is pretty great. Good, solid, interesting booking with quality wrestling. I also enjoy the abundence of youngster and lack of established stars, and the majority of the roster are good stuff. I'd say ECW has been better than any PPV this year.
- KENTA One of my favourites, though I'd be lying if I said he was a flawless wrestler. Can't sell limbwork to save his life and can get pretty spotty at times, though he is amazing when up against heavyweights. Him beating the crap out of people is always fun; hate-filled KENTA vs heavyweight may be one of the best matchups in wrestling this decade.
Wow, I knew I was forgetting some.... remember loving the Danielson match, though that was years ago and my memory of it is pretty vague. Thought the tag match was also great though Ki was the real star of the match.
Shelton Benjamin
Really overrated but underrated at the same time. Underrated by WWE because he is treated like a jobber and he is a good enough wrestler to be a solid midcarder and made to look more of a threat, but overrated by the IWC because people say he should main event just because he's a good pure athelete. This is sports entertainment and he has no charisma so...
Also, he has to be a face. He's terrible as a heel whereas he gets over as a face from his moves.
Japanese wrestlers in ROH over the years
Liger, Misawa, KENTA and Marafuji were all good there from what I've seen. KENTA was involved in one of the best matches I've seen against Dragon, and Kobashi's match with Joe was pretty epic.
Eugene
I never found him funny or entertaining and I always hated the gimmick. Not saying that he's a bad wrestler because in all honestly I could never tell, and people assured me that Nick Dinsmore was good, but I don't care. I cheered when he got released because the gimmick was one of the worst I've ever seen.
AJ Styles on the independant scene
From what I have seen he was pretty good in ROH. The title match with Danielson at Dissension springs to mind, but you could argue that most people have good matches against Danielson. He is definitely better in TNA.
Title Tournemants
Good idea now and again. Not only do they make the belt look worth fighting for and the eventual winner look better, but they can start other feuds too.
Over-the-top angles
I have always been a fan of the over-the-top-ness of sports entertainment which is why I prefer mainstream wrestling to independent wrestling, where its more about the actual wrestling. Obviously I'm not saying there's not angles which extend beyond competition but you know what I mean. You don't get the same shocking stuff you sometimes see in mainstream wrestling. I regard things like the limo explosion, the "Who ran over Austin?" angle, the DDP stalker angle etc as pretty great.
ECW (the WWE brand)
Well it produces some very good TV matches and its looking pretty good right now with the likes of Christian, Swagger and Bourne. That said, it just doesn't seem a big enough deal for me to watch it, and the matches alone don't interest me enough. I enjoyed it when it was first introduced in 2006, as it seemed pretty big then and seemed like something different to the other brands. Even things like the entranceway set it apart, and we saw Extreme Rules matches, and ECW originals. It then went through a period when it was pretty terrible, and now it is good, but just not that interesting. I would rather it didn't exist, but I guess it is a half way decent way of getting people over. I would rather they scrapped ECW and just gave matches more time on the other brands, and made the midcard titles credible again, but that will never happen. Too many titles.
KENTA
Only seen a few matches. As said the Danielson one was 5*, and a few of his matches in Japan I have seen were pretty good too. His GTS is better than Punk's as well.
I thought it COULD have been good had they A) not used someone who was a top tier face and B) not turned him instantly into a jobber. If they had done that then I would agree it, along with the Asutin angle were great... as they lead to wrestling. Didn't see what possible good could have come from the limo explision angle though, personally.
I think Styles worked a lot lighter in ROH after his return because he had to put his TNA career first and he didn't want to risk injury or whatever, which is fair enough really.
I thought it COULD have been good had they A) not used someone who was a top tier face and B) not turned him instantly into a jobber. If they had done that then I would agree it, along with the Asutin angle were great... as they lead to wrestling. Didn't see what possible good could have come from the limo explision angle though, personally.
I think Styles worked a lot lighter in ROH after his return because he had to put his TNA career first and he didn't want to risk injury or whatever, which is fair enough really.
I'm not necessarily saying it was booked well or that it helped anybody, I'm just saying that it was a good concept and I don't consider it to over the top, I consider that kind of angle interesting. Also it was great before Undertaker had got his hands on him, wondering what he was going to do to him etc.
As for the limo one, that was just the single most shocking moment in the history of RAW for me.