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13. Thoughts On....

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Old 04-22-2009, 02:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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13. Thoughts On....

- Aries vs Danielson matches

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?

- Favourite US tag match ever?

- Light-tube deathmatches

- Jerry Lawler

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall?

- The Miz/John Morrison team

- ROH 2009

- Sid Vicious

- Evolution
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?
Oh, that's a difficult one, for some time i've considered Bret one of the top 5 greatest of all-time, but nowadays I think Shawn could quite easily make the top 10 also. Wrestling wise then no doubt it's Bret, but spectacle wise then probably Shawn, but then again Bret can do great promos without even trying. Both legendary, but Bret has been legendary for about 10 years, I don't think you can say the same about Shawn. Not sure.

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?
Since this is wrestling we're talking about, then i'd say high-quality matwork.

- Light-tube deathmatches
I love a good blood bath, you have to respect people who are willing to do that to their bodies, there's something strangely hypnotic about someone getting smashed over the back or head with a florescent lighttube.

- Jerry Lawler
Menphis icon, his battles with Tery Funk & Bill Dundee are the stuff of legend, and in his second career as a commentator, he's grown to be a voice we all know and love aswell as JR, shame he dosen't wrestle in the E too much these days though.

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall?
I'd say Nash=Hall, they sort of both made eachother, in 1996 along with Hogan, although Nash has managed to be more succesful overall, but that could be attributed to his height and Halls personal problems.

- Sid Vicious
One of the greatest big men of all-time, he's best booked in short, squash matches where he can use power moves on average sized wrestlers to get himself way over with the fans i.e. Scott Steiner it's a shame he's not up to much these days, he could still do it.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Steventon View Post
- Aries vs Danielson matches

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?

- Favourite US tag match ever?

- Light-tube deathmatches

- Jerry Lawler

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall?

- The Miz/John Morrison team

- ROH 2009

- Sid Vicious

- Evolution
Shaun or Bret - VERY hard to pick. Bret as a wrestler, shaun as a preformer. As i wasnt around much for bret i will pic HBK but i do love bret.

Light Tube Deathmatches - I love the hardcore shit CZW can dish out sometimes. Entertaining and will make you gasp

Kevin Nash or Scott Hall - Nash is more funny, in and out of the ring with his antics back in wcw. Scott hall a much better preformer.

Scott hall wins it, just for the fact "HEY YO" i love them both

Sid Vicious - If booked properly and more entertainingly in 1999, it would ofhelped wcw a hell of alot. I didnt see him in his hay-day but his promos on WCW were hilarious, i loved the guy.
As a "big guy" he was great. I loved the showdown with him and taker at WM 13.

Evolution - Very entertainign but as for most things in wrestling got boring. They got rid of evolution correctly i think and was very good booking ( in my opinion there not sure if you would agree ) Shame HHH was too much on top though with holding the title
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?
Since this is wrestling we're talking about, then i'd say high-quality matwork
Umm... brawling is just as much ''wrestling'' as matwork is.

Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?
Maybe Bret was the better technical wrestler, but Michaels entertains me more, plain and simple. Michaels pulls out all the stops and knows exactly how to get the fans on the edge of their seats. I like both but Michaels for me.

High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?
I love personal feuds and brawls are my favorite type of match. I just find it more entertaining than matwork tbh.

Favourite US tag match ever?
I'll have to think about that one.

Light-tube deathmatches
Fucking terrible. Oh hey lets be violent for the sake of it and cut ourselves up in front of about 50 people. Hilarious that Nick Mondo works in Blockbusters. Was it worth it Nick?
I like hardcore wrestling but shit like that crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Jerry Lawler
Hardly seen him as a wrestler but as a commentator, I used to like him. He was hilarious as a heel but now he is really stale and pretty damn bad. He can take the drama out of any match, as can Cole. Plus his diva shit got old about 10 years ago.

Kevin Nash or Scott Hall?
I always preferred Nash, although I never watched WCW so I'm only judging on WWE/TNA.

The Miz/John Morrison team
One of the few very good tag teams of the modern era, although I do think they were overrated because of the lack of competition. They wouldn't have stood out in another era of tag team wrestling. Still good though, and it was great for both guys.

Evolution

Great stable. If only they still produced things like that nowadays. A stable which produced two future multi-time World Champions...although how funny is it that the leader of the stable is STILL in the main event with them.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

- Aries vs Danielson matches - Always energetic when you combine the talents of Austin Aries who can break down a body part faster than anybody in the profession today given his size and for Danielson's ability to carry a young Austin Aries at the time that these two began their feuds, this was like watching two great stallions running in a race all their own and with the star power these two had back just a few years ago when Austin captured the ROH Title Belt, it was one of the very best feuds ROH has even put on to this point and Aries best while Danielson has had consistency in this area feuding with Samoa Joe, Nigel and Morishima. Just awesome work put on by two of Ring of Honor's very best competitors that have stayed with the promotion even to this day. Yeah, Aries had his little venture in TNA for a short while but his disdain for the actual product he was doing as "Austin Starr" wasn't cutting it and he returned and to me has always been an ROH competitor.

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart? - Shawn Michaels. While Bret always was the consummate professional inside the ring for the WWF putting on great match after match after match and not getting the respect he "Deserved" Michaels came in after doing his thing with Jannety and gave the WWF a new, brash, arrogant look that Bret didn't have and that was Carisma in a nutshell. Michaels while he may be quitting soon (Year from now) He has consistently been one of the WWE's best performers and when given the ability to do his own material, consistently helps out the younger talent of today get over when he is not teaming with HHH or involved in a program with the McMahon's.

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork? - Canvas-work. While I enjoy the high quality brawls of a hardcore street fight, the technical ability inside the middle of that ring and being able to call yourself a Wrestler appeals to me more. Anybody can hit somebody with a Chair but not anybody can do an Armdrag into an Armbar and work it effectively.

- Favorite US tag match ever? - Just off the top of my head, I'll give you one from all 3 promotions.

ROH: Motor City Machine Guns vs. The Briscoe Brothers at Goodtimes Great Memories in 07.
TNA: MCMG vs. Speed Muscle TNA Impact in June of 08
WWE: British Bulldogs vs. Hart Foundation in the late 80's

- Light-tube deathmatches - CZW's specialty. Garbage. Just for the thrill match and it isn't worth it.

- Jerry Lawler - King of Memphis because he practically owned the city. He stuck alot to his gimmick and never could really work an actual wrestling match but for what Lawler did, he was great for the psychology of the Memphis area.

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall? - I can't stand both and wish not to chose but if I had, then I'd go with Kevin Nahs. The lesser of two evils I suppose.

- The Miz/John Morrison team - One of the better teams the WWE actually used in quite some time that brought some consistency to the WWE and actually utilize a Tag Division somewhat for a year or so.

- ROH 2009 - Growing and trying to find their way around here because of numerous injuries and face changes namely the return of Prince Nana, Jimmy Rave and Colt Cabana. Along with some new faces like Kenny King, Kenny Omega, Bobby Dempsey, Brodie, Bison Smith, Grizz, Rhett Titus, the emergence of Eddie Edwards and Tyler Black finally breaking through. ROH is growing and they need to continue on this upward path. More of a trend on storylines and characters but the matches haven't dropped off that much.

- Sid Vicious - Big Worker who has attitude and ego issues. Broken leg in a freak accident and was pushed way to fast given his size and lack of talent.

- Evolution - 2nd Best Stable ever in Wrestling History only behind 4 Horsemen because they actually elevated 2 younger stars and gave them a path to stardom which is sadly missing in todays picture.
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?
I'd say HBK, just because I seen more of his matches. Bret Hart is a little before my time, so I haven't seen much from him.

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?
Brawls because it's more entertaining to me. Sometimes matwork can be boring even if its excellent. Brawls just seem more intense and entertaining.


- Favourite US tag match ever?
Does this include gimmick matches? If so, I say TLC 2 at Wrestlemaina 17, truly an innovator match in tag team wrestling today.

- Light-tube deathmatches
Idk, it depends if you are in to that kind of stuff, some people like it, some people don't/ I personally don't like it and it's just way to extreme, pretty stupid to put your body through that, it's not even like it's a big stage scenario, it's just for small promotions. If you do that your whole career, you'll never make it big. Nick Mondo is only 28, i beleive?, and he's already retired because of those matches.

- Jerry Lawler
I've hardly seen King as a wrestler, but I heard him as a commentator since I started watching WWE. He was funny in the beginning, but became mehh. He was best when he was withJR and rooting on the heels.

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall?
Nash, he's made it farther and was more entertaining.

- The Miz/John Morrison team
Great team. One of the best teams in the last five years. Miz/Morrison propelled each other and made each other better wrestlers and characters. It's time they part ways, so they can go for a singles career. I expect to see much more of them.

- ROH 2009
Booo Jerry Lynn Champion.

- Sid Vicious
Haven't seen much from him, so I can't really judge him.

- Evolution
Def. the best stable since I started watching wrestling. The stable produced two great main-eventers. They were entertaining, fun to watch, and arguably the best heel stable in the business. Make more stables like this imo, see what happened to Randy and Batista? They've won championships. That is what WWE is trying to do with Legacy, someday Rhodes and Dibiase will become great main-eventers.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

- Aries vs Danielson matches
The matches that made Aries a star until Samoa Joe came around and in one match ensured that Aries would always had a job with ROH. Not as good as some of Danielson's other series, but you were always guaranteed to get a solid enough match. No gimmicks or frills, just good old fashion wrestling.

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?
Bret Hart. Hart was relied on to carry an entire company while Michaels was still struggling as a singles wrestler. Somehow, Bret was able to rake in MOTYC's every year of the 90's (WWE career). Michaels put in some good matches and his return has helped his overall career a lot, but he just can't compare to the sheer quantity of great matches from Hart.

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?
It really just depends on who's in the match. You could have one of the best matches of the year with Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, then go right into a 5 star brawl. As long as there aren't any weapons involved, brawls can be just as fun as mat work.

- Favourite US tag match ever?
I like what Nick did, so:

WWE: Bret and Owen Hart vs The Steiner Brothers - Wrestlefest 1994
WCW: Sting and Lex Luger vs The Steiner Brothers - Superbrawl
ROH: Samoa Joe and Low-Ki vs Kenta Kobashi and Homicide - Unforgettable

- Light-tube deathmatches
I've seen a few and have had zero desire to see any more.

- Jerry Lawler
Fairly good wrestler back in the day. Always was a great talker which made it obvious that he had a career beyond in ring wrestling. For commentating though, he's either annoying or just so bland.

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall?
If I'm just watching a random match, I'll trust Hall more by producing a better match. However, if it's an interview or some sort of promo, I'd rather listen to Nash.

- The Miz/John Morrison team
Easy WWE candidate for best tag team of the second half of the 2000's. However, they looked so great because of all the crap we've been forced to watch in terms of tag teams. Due to that, I feel some have overrated their worth in tag team history. Sadly, they lacked purpose and direction for most of their time together. Random tag team booked in even more random tag matches, but were entertaining.

- ROH 2009
The year of the bitching. The fans have been the worst aspect of the company so far this year. I could think of so many worse choices for champions than Jerry Lynn. For the rest of the first quarter, it's been up and down. The highs came in returns from Jimmy Rave and Colt Cabana at the 7th Anniversary Show. The lows comes from the HD Net show where ROH surprisingly comes off as not having a clue about putting on a weekly TV show.

- Sid Vicious
Easily one of the most underrated wrestlers of all time. Butcher a couple of interviews and suddenly people who never even watched wrestling when you were around thinks you were terrible. There's a reason why the guy for a brief moment in time was more over than both Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels in 1996. Talented big man who just suffered from not being great and sometimes being lazy. Dangerous combination.

- Evolution
One of the most overrated stables ever. Evolution helped made 2003 one of my least favorite wrestling years ever. The sole purpose of the group was to keep Hunter on top and slowly build up Randy Orton. They managed to keep Hunter as the top wrestler on Raw, even with the fans crying out for change. Randy Orton was built up to be the star of the future, but they managed to fuck it all up a month after Orton left the group. The greatest success had to come from the out of nowhere popularity of Batista who took Evolution as the group put together to make him a star.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

- Aries vs Danielson matches - I liked them, I can't seem to remember much about them, but I know that they're on my short list of rewatch.

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart? - Hart, fuck Michaels.

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork? - I prefer matwork 10-to-1 to Brawls. A high quality matwork match just has so much flow.

- Favorite US tag match ever? - um, based on what i've recently seen, i did like aries/strong vs kenta/richards. and the guerreros vs angle/benoit vs edge/rey from 02 i think?

- Light-tube deathmatches - meh, don't care

- Jerry Lawler - whateveryoneelsesaid

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall? - scott hall, even with his drunkeness, his characters seemed far more relatable than anything nash did. and in general i liked his in ring work better than nash.

- The Miz/John Morrison team - eh, good team, amongst many bad teams. probably overrated due to the lack of other tag teams, and being decent(see cryme tyme for another example)

- ROH 2009 - haven't seen anything but a few matches

- Sid Vicious - dont care enough to think about

- Evolution - i thought it was great for awhile, but it seemed to just drag on after awhile. and it felt so generic after the breakups. i thought there was so much more potential with it that wasn't utilised.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

<!-- google_ad_section_start -->- Aries vs Danielson matches
The matches vs. Danielson really propelled Aries into stardom. And these two continued to produce great things after Aries won the title. There match at Testing the Limits remains one match that I've always wanted to see, but for some reason has eluded me for so long.

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?

I'm a Shawn mark through and through. Shawn is a better actor and mic men than Bret, but Bret gets a slight advantage when it comes to mat work. When it comes to who I think is more valuable to a show, I would go with Shawn Micheals.

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?

I do not like matches that are to extreme into either category. I prefer a good mix that tends to lean more towards being a matwork match. I although I do really enjoy ones that lean slightly towards a brawl too.

- Favourite US tag match ever?
I haven't seen many of the classic tag team matches, but from what I have seen I would go with Do Fixer vs. Blood Generation at Supercard of Honor. As for a match that has actual US wrestlers, I'm not really sure.

- Light-tube deathmatches
I enjoy death matches. I think there is nothing wrong with the idea of a death match, and I don't care about the body of the wrestler. Its there body, they may do what they want with it. However, a light-tube match can very easily become a sloppy hit-each-other-over-the-head-with-every-light-tube-in-the-ring match. Those matches I cant stand. On any given death match DVD, about 3-5 will be those kinds of matches, then another 3-5 will actually be enjoyable death matches. Those good ones will include wrestling, innovative use of weapons, and wait for it....ring psychology.

- The Miz/John Morrison team

I haven't seen much of them, but from what I have seen I enjoyed them as a tag team.

- ROH 2009
I have seen every show from Full Circle to Proving Ground Night 2. I think those shows are very average. There was some good stuff like Tyler Black vs Nigel McGuinnes, Tyler Black vs. Davey Richards, and Aries new heel persona. It seems though ROH has really began to pick up around the Anniversary show and has had one less than stellar show sence. I look forward to the new DVDs coming out.

- Evolution
I though the stable itself was decent, not much more than that. But the result of the stable was two solid main eventers for the WWE. Therfor a succsess. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:06 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 13. Thoughts On....

- Aries vs Danielson matches
Propelled Aries into the spotlight, however it takes two to dance. Danielson was able to bring forth the talent and lay it on the mat for everyone to see. Great pairing.

- Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart?
This needs a topic of it's own, I'm almost a page into an argument on MS Word about this one. Short and Simple; Michaels.

- High-quality brawls or high-quality matwork?
As someone else mentioned, depends on the people involved. Michaels/HHH had some fantastic brawls through their best of 1,000,000 match series, but watching classic matwork with Shawn/Angle or Steamboat/Savage etc. is always entertaining for me.

- Favourite US tag match ever?
Samoa Joe and Low-Ki vs Kenta Kobashi and Homicide - Unforgettable
Easy choice, phenomenal match.

- Light-tube deathmatches
Ehh, I appreciate the fact people are dying for their own causes, but how many Light-tube deathmatches was "The Rock" in? It's a gimmick put in place usually to hide a weakness. A great wrestler/entertainer should be able to do so without shredding their bodies. Another touchy subject which people could argue all day. [Progression of fueds etc]

- Jerry Lawler
As a heel wrestler, one of the best and most under-rated of his time. Never saw much Memphis stuff, his work with the entire Hart family over the course of a few years in the early 90's was brilliant.

- Kevin Nash or Scott Hall?
Scott Hall, never made it as big as Nash because of obvious personal issues. Twice as good though, great big man who threw a beautiful punch and sold his ass off whenever he wasn't reduced to being passed out on it.

- The Miz/John Morrison team
Haven't seen enough to pass judgement, The Dirt Sheet was usually always amusing.

- ROH 2009
Early days, cutting down the show lengths and going through somewhat of a teething stage with Pearce at the helm, should be interesting to see where they are by August/Sept. I've liked bits and peices and shuddered at others.

- Sid Vicious
Terrible. Terrible wrestler, Horrible on the mic. Only ever got mildly over because of his size and the people he was paired with, terrible accident ended an un-memorable career.

- Evolution<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
It served a purpose in elevating Orton & Batista, I think it could've been dragged out a little bit longer but thats open to interpretation. Definately over-rated by calling it one of the top stables ever. It was no where near that level, they tried way to hard to re-create "Four Horsemen" and the magic wasnt their. Not too say it wasn't good, considering what it was surrounded by story-wise at the time.
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