RobyD

I thought it would be neat to note that the NWA World Title and the NWA is a mother Title and promotion for AWA (Pat O'Connor),
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Rogers), WCW (Ric Flair), ECW (Shane Douglas), and TNA (Kurt Angle). I was just curious to if there were any major promotions and titles that weren't spawns of the NWA?

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horrorfan_1986

The TNA title didn't come from the NWA. It's it own separate title.

The WCW title is the same deal. It took over for the NWA title, but it wasn't spawned from the NWA.

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RobyD

But the idea is that on both occasions, they were NWA Champions, that title was vacated and because they were the last recognized NWA Champion, they became WCW and TNA Champions respectively by default.

With Buddy Rogers the
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and NWA has a disareement and Rogers wasn't recognized by NWA but was by
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so they withdrew and recognized him as Champion.

With Pat O'Connor, it was a similar situation I guess to the IWGP disputed version of the belt and AWA withdrew recognizin Pat O'Connor as their first champion but was given 90 days to defend (ad otherwise lose) the Title to Verne Gagne (the guy AWA wanted as Champion) and since he didn't, he was stripped of the belt.

With Kurt Angle, he was the NWA:TNA Champion but the NWA reclaimed their belt and the Title was simply vacated to Christian Cage (unrecognized) and when he defended that physical belt, Kurt Angle won becoming the first TNA Champion. This is the only disputable one, imo.

With Ric Flair, he defeated Sting for the NWA Title and was recognized because of this as both NWA and the first WcW champion. Of course, he dropped both Titles when he signed with the WWF.

In all occasions, association with the NWA World Title is what won/defaulted them the Title in the first place.

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horrorfan_1986

Angle won the TNA title in the KOTM match (When there wasn't a champion).

But by clarifying that you meant all those titles came when a company stopped recognizing a NWA champion, Shane Douglas doesn't fit either. Shane Douglas was already ECW Champion when he won the NWA title (Two totally different title wins). It was just so happen that ECW used Shane's NWA title win to break away from the NWA. However, Shane was already their top guy in their territory.

For Ric Flair, I view it as something totally different as well (Compared to the WWE title). The NWA title was still apart of WCW for a few years. It wasn't until 1994 (Over 3 years) that the NWA title was finally dismissed from WCW. For this, I'd compare it more to the ECW title (The ECW title is to the WWE Title as the WCW title is to the NWA title).

But as for the main topic, it's not too surprising since once upon a time, there was only one World Champion. However, in the case of the territories, most places had their own Heavyweight championship. It's that championship that was just made into a World title when a company left the NWA.

For the case of Verne, he was recognized (In some places) as the NWA champion. However, after a few years of unable to get the NWA (The rest) to get him a match and the win to make him the undisputed NWA champion, Verne basically said 'Fuck it' and went King Edward the 8th on the NWA. Making Pat O'Conner the champion was done for Verne's benefit only. They knew that O
Conner would never be a wrestler with them but because he had claim to being World Champion (He was then-NWA champion - recognized by most which Verne wasn't). By having Verne win it due to "Forfeit", the AWA weaseled their way around making Verne the undisputed World Champion, but by under the AWA label. With Verne becoming AWA champion (After defeating NWA champion), it was meant to be a way to unify the NWA championships.

While I wouldn't argue the NWA title made the AWA, it's a lot complicated than the simple WWE "We refuse to admit that there's a new World Champion, so the old champion will just be our first champion."
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It should also be pointed out that the WWE title for a time was under the NWA World title when Vince Sr went back to the NWA.

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RobyD

Okay, okay. That explains a lot for me, thank you.

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horrorfan_1986

Now, speaking of the NWA title (I don't feel like letting this thread die just yet), it's also worthy to note how many companies has claims to the title's history.

WWE - Even after the split from the NWA, WCW continued to reference the history of the NWA title as part of the WCW title. Once the WCW title was brought to the WWE and brought back as the World Heavyweight title (While it's debatable if it is the same title, the WWE has shown signs that they treat it as the same), the WWE can continue the same historical significance the title has as WCW did.

TNA - While the WWE was touting their World Heavyweight title, the NWA gave the NWA World Title to TNA. With TNA being based on tradition, they often times referenced the greats of yesteryear. While TNA did create a new title, it's first champion was the last man who held the NWA title before the NWA took back their titles. One could easily still say that TNA World Championship is linked with the NWA Title still.

ECW/WWE - With Shane Douglas winning the title, ECW could of always claimed that they had the one true link to the NWA World Title. Once the ECW was brought back by the WWE, the WWE has yet another link.

ROH - Even though it was brief, as long as Adam Pearce was NWA Champion, ROH as well had claims to the history of the title. With the old school dusty finish for the Nigel/Pearce unification match, Nigel could be thought of as being the NWA champion. Considering in 5+ years, TNA never followed the over the top rope rule, does the rule still actually exist?

NWA - Of course what's left of the NWA has the most obvious claim to the history of the NWA title. However, it needs to be reminded that WCW unified the NWA (Then called the International Championship aka The Big Gold Belt) with the WCW title in 1994. So even the NWA doesn't have total control in the eyes of all of the NWA title past.

Other controversies - The above is just some of the controversies. There's plenty of other people who has some small claim to the title due to wins over the champion (Whether typically recognized or not).

Basically, the NWA World Title is perhaps the most whored out title in wrestling's history.

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RobyD

I don't even think it's that whored out, just presigious. Title reigns would go on so long that there have only been 26 recognized Champions in its 61 years of existence. Then again, the key word to that is recognized.

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horrorfan_1986

I'm not even sure if I'd call it prestigious.

It's a title with perhaps the most disputed title reigns, one that has been thrown down in favour of lesser titles, pushed aside for new titles, passed to guys for sexual favours, has been practically dead at several points of it's existence and hasn't meant anything truly significant in decades.

It's a lot like the WCW TV title. Everyone would love to remember it for the Best of Seven Series, the strong title reigns of Arn Anderson and Steven Regal and finally held by such great names as Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Steve Austin and Tully Blanchard. However, the fact remains that there were also terrible reigns by such names as The Renegade, Disco Inferno, Fit Finlay and was thrown in a garbage can, only to be retrieved by a new man claiming to now own the title.

No matter how much good the title saw in it's glory days, it's also seen so much garbage that keeps it from being prestige.

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