2. Thoughts on...

King Steventon · 02-14-2009, 01:01 PM

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"></o:smarttagtype> - RVD vs <st1:city w:st="on">Lynn</st1:city> fued from ECW

- Edge

- The Miz

- Mike Quackenbush

- Kevin Steen

- Attitude-era main events

- Ultimo Dragon

- Jericho/Benoit – Ladder match from RR 2001

- Shawn Michaels

- John Cena’s gimmick

Tommy Platinum · 02-14-2009, 01:17 PM

RVD vs Lynn fued from ECW
Heard a lot about it but never seen anything from it ever.

Edge
Perhaps the best heel of a generation. Very good in the ring and great on the mic, and he once had a great gimmick. Unfortunately he has recently fallen victim to WWEs painstaking attempts to make every aspect of the product as ''PG'' as possible, as well as general poor booking. Has become very stale.

The Miz
Pretty much what everyone else will say. Hated him at first but he has shown great improvement and I now find him to be very enjoyable. I still think Morrison has the bigger future of the two but Miz could be a solid midcarder.

Mike Quackenbush
Don't think I have ever seen him to be honest.

Kevin Steen
Not seen him nearly enough to comment.

Attitude-era main events
I kinda liked the amount of run ins. It made the matches feel really big because there was never a PPV main event which was uneventful. The standard of wrestling overall was worse than now though.

Ultimo Dragon
Again, not seen enough...

Jericho/Benoit – Ladder match from RR 2001
Probably the best singles ladder match I have ever seen and more proof of how great the IC title looked back then. Why can't they book real feuds over the belt now? It clearly helps build stars but they don't seem to give a fuck about that. Match was great anyway, featuring a lot of innovative spots without being too over the top.

Shawn Michaels
Not the greatest technical wrestler ever, but for my money the greatest sports entertainer ever. His matches always have that extra something, especially on the big stage. He will always go all out to steal the show and knows exactly how to get the fans on their feet. I know he has been around a long time, but his list of great matches is very impressive indeed.

John Cena’s gimmick
What gimmick? He isn't really allowed to show much character at all, he is just your typical babyface. I wish he would quit the childish promos, they need to let him show some attitude, but that isn't likely in current WWE.

King Steventon · 02-14-2009, 02:44 PM

Do yourself a favour and check out some of the Lynn/RVD matches, some of Quack's stuff from ROH, CHIKARA & wXw, some Steenerico tags and some of 90's Ultimo.

- RVD vs <st1:city w:st="on">Lynn</st1:city> fued from ECW
Hilarious how people often pass these off as "technical matches" simply because they do the indy chain-wrestling-to-stand-off spot alot. Most of them were flashly spotfests, but enjoyable. Remember a few standing out in particular as being really damn good. Living Dangerously(?) and the one after Lynn got beat down by the Impact Players. Booking was top notch.

- Edge
Hugely overated in-ring competitor who's peak was really 2002. Can have great matches when put in a "big match" situation, but other than that he is pretty mediocre. People tend to act like his matches are going to be great when really they only care about the twist/swerve at the end, his matches are alot like post-quad tear Trips in the respect that they are often a bunch of boring filler until the angle at the end. I'd say he's the most stale guy in the wwe right now and needs a total transformation. New looks, new persona, new style, new moveset, etc

- The Miz
Underated worker who has potential to be great. Can't see him ever as a main eventer, but he could be a great mid-carder in the long term. Not sure which of him and Morrison is better, but they make a good team and if the wwe's tag division actually mattered they'd be producing quality matches on PPV consistantly. Good on the mat and has alot of good offence.

- Mike Quackenbush
Not really the guy to go to for "epic" matches, but perhaps one of the most consistantly enjoyable workers in the world. A refreshing break on the indy scene as he wrestles a more British and Mexican style than the puro-esqe style of ROH and PWG. Got a lot of love for Quack.

- Kevin Steen
Wrestling needs more guys like Kevin Steen; barrels of personality who will kick your ass.

- Attitude-era main events
99% of them were apalling.

- Ultimo Dragon
During the mid-90's one of the top workers in the world. Got sort of unmotivated later, but his matches with Liger, Sasuke and Ohtani are classics and must-see. WCW run was mostly real good, WWE run was unmotivated and booked poorly.

- Jericho/Benoit – Ladder match from RR 2001
Narrowly tops Rock/HHH as the best ladder match ever. Benoit chairshot/dive spot was too much, but apart from that it's pretty flawless.

- Shawn Michaels
One of the most overated wrestlers ever. I've watched the majority of his popular 90's matches and have yet to find any of them good let alone great. Seriously, how the fuck was 1996 his prime? Has had some great matches to his name, but alot of his highly-praised stuff is also overated to the fucking moon. Enjoyable when in the high profile mid-card position working with guys lower than him on the roster as opposed to him in a "big match" situation. Weak punches, dive spots that barely connect and attrocious over-selling get on my tits.

- John Cena’s gimmick
Diabolical. Shocking how they refuse to turn him heel despite the crowd reactions. Blandest face of this generation?

horrorfan_1986 · 02-14-2009, 04:15 PM

- RVD vs Lynn feud from ECW
The best thing ECW was producing at the time. These matches were occurring around the time I was getting into ECW and they just sucked me in. Bookers should really look at the feud to see how you can actually elevate someone with having them lose every time. Sadly, their final two matches were huge letdowns (Guilty By Charged 2001 and Heat 2001)

- Edge
Overrated by a lot. His mic skills are decent at best, but people thinks he's great simply because he yells. Match-wise, he's been in a decline ever since he returned in 2004. He's still able to put on a good match, but it's not as much as past years. Ironically, besides in 2000, the past few years he's had more charisma than ever. Then again, when you're as interesting as a cardboard box, that's not a big surprise.

- The Miz
Underrated. It's been incredible watching The Miz develop into the wrestler he is today. Even with his inexperience, he's been carrying Morrison (Oh yeah, Morrison is so great
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 20 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
) while impressing fans in matches whenever he's given a chance. The guy knows what it takes to get over. Unlike so many WWE wrestlers today, Miz has found a character that doesn't seem forced and feels believable.

- Mike Quackenbush
Superior technical wrestler, sadly I haven't seen enough of him as I'd like. But from what I've seen of him in CHIKARA, I'd love to see more high profile matches for Quack.

- Kevin Steen
He doesn't have a particularly good look, he doesn't have size and he doesn't really fit one style of wrestler. And yet, he's over and capable of putting on the best match of the night any time. With everyone going crazy about Tyler Black, I feel as if Steen is the more ready and capable wrestler to be World Champion.

- Attitude-era main events
The same old shit everytime. Brawl in the crowds, ref bump, interference and finish of match. While Vince Russo was extremely helpful to the WWE to make money, him leaving in late 1999 did wonders for the quality of the WWE's main events. On the plus side, they were the most over parts of the show and the reasons why most people were watching or attending.

- Ultimo Dragon
Along with Benoit, Jericho, Malenko and Mysterio Jr, Dragon was THE reason to watch WCW in the mid-90's. To this day, I still look the look of Dragon hitting the hurricrana from the top rope after he started out facing the same direction as his opponent.

- Jericho/Benoit – Ladder match from RR 2001
Best ladder match ever? Perhaps. In the era of TLC spotfests, these two managed to go back to the basics of a ladder match. Instead of relying on spots with dead space while waiting for the next spot, these two wrestled one of their normal great matches, only with the ladder involved. Dare I say the last match that the IC title meant anything?

- Shawn Michaels
Overrated. His fans makes his matches seem as if they're flawless. Angle vs Michaels - WM = MOTY. Hart vs Michaels or Michaels vs Mankind = MOTY. What BS. I don't think I've been let down by a wrestler's matches as much as I have with Michaels. The guy due to his ego fucked up his one chance of wrestling Hulk Hogan. Michaels has somehow evaded dropping the title to guys more than anyone else. It's clear he is a talented wrestler, but he's no where near the status of GOAT like some make him out to be.

- John Cena’s gimmick
Cena has a gimmick these days?

King Steventon · 02-14-2009, 04:21 PM

Cookie-cutter, HUSTLE LOYALTY RESPECT, chain gang BS, imo. Character... gimmick... same difference.

The IC title was great back during Orton and Benjamin's reigns.

Best Quack match of last year, check it out:

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 20 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

horrorfan_1986 · 02-14-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Steventon
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 20 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The IC title was great back during Orton and Benjamin's reigns.

Orton - See if this makes sense, the booking of the title was good, but match booking wise, it wasn't. Orton barely defended it on major shows. When he did, most of the time, it wasn't anything special. For Jericho vs Benoit, it was the culmination of their on and off feud. The match was top notch and it helped the belt look important.

Benjamin - Maybe had the WWE put effort into making the title memorable, it would of been great. The reign was just Shelton trying his best to pull out great matches from lackluster booking. Especially near the end of the reign, the obvious feeling of the IC title being meaningless was made more known.

King Steventon · 02-14-2009, 04:28 PM

I dunno, I think their reigns elevated both of them. I may do a thread later about the last time the IC meant anything. >_>

horrorfan_1986 · 02-14-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Steventon
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 20 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I dunno, I think their reigns elevated both of them. I may do a thread later about the last time the IC meant anything. >_>

Orton, yes, but even without the title, I think he would of ended up being in the same position in 2004. His biggest feud of the year that helped him was the Mick Foley feud and while the Backlash match was for the IC title, the title was backseat to the grudge.

Did it really help Shelton? What did Shelton do after losing the IC title the last time? I seem to recall Shetlon doing a lot of jobbing before being paired with Mama Benjamin. His second and third IC title reigns were rather meaningless in my opinion. But basically, Shelton was already a top midcarder when he won the IC title, after losing it, if anything I'd say he was dropped down a spot or two.