Suffy

Since both Canada and the US are talking about putting money into the big three (Ford, GM, Chrystler) to help bail them out I figure may as well see what fellow Cliquers think.

Good idea, or bad idea?

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Inogenius

It's unfortunate that I have to say I am for the bailout. I believe in capitalism, and part of capitalism is failure. Without the bailout though, GM is no more. Ford may follow suit, however Alan Mullaley seems to actually have the place running good. Chrysler has a boat load of cash, but it's not in good shape either.

The reason I say GM is no more, is because Chapter 11 bankruptcy isn't available to it. The only form of bankruptcy that GM can file is Chapter 7, which is liquidation. The reason being is that GM doesn't have any DIP loans available to it because of the credit crunch (GM would need a lot more than Circuit City's 1.1 Billion), it doesn't have a whole lot of assets that can be sold off, and finally, GM isn't going to turn a profit for quite some time, not until its costs are reduced, and even bankruptcy won't help that (more on it later).

If GM were to file bankruptcy, Chapter 7 bankruptcy that is, it would put close to
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, which would be absolutely catastrophic to the economy. Additionally, as time went on, more and more people would lose jobs, as suppliers, like Delphi, Rockwell, and so on would be forced to layoffs.

Ultimately what GM needs to do is reduce a lot of its costs. GM right now is paying over $70 an hour per employee, while Nissan is paying a little less than $40 an hour per employee. This is due to the burdensome UAW benefits that labor union has forced on the company. I just wish that these UAW members would realize that in order for GM to survive, they're going to need to make sacrifices. If they don't, things are going to be a heckuva lot worse.

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Dakstang

I think we need to save the American Auto Industry at ALL costs.

I would support making it harder for foreign owned Automobile companies to do business here if necessary.

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There'll be no sorrow there, no more burdens to bear,
No more sickness, no more pain, no more parting over there;
And forever I will be with the One who died for me,
What a day, glorious day that will be.

Jayman

As an employee for GM, I will say that, obviously, I am all for the bailout plan. Things in Michigan are extremely bad right now, and in fact worse than any other state in a financial sense. Unemployment is astronomically high, near the 8% mark, businesses are failing all around here, and to top it all off: if the Auto Industry failed as well, you might as well just blow Michigan off the map.

Obviously, this industry is Michigan's bread and butter, but looking at the bigger picture as the country on a whole, it would be a disaster for us as well. Terry was pretty spot on in his post, so I'm not going to re-hash what he said.

But I will say as a GM employee, I'm currently scared to death. Everyone in my building, and at the plants as well, are pretty pessimistic about this entire situation. There were a long round of cuts that went around about a month ago, with many opting to take an early retirement package. And with the executives not getting the numbers they needed, now there is talk of more cuts coming soon...even before the end of the year.

I understand many people around the country are of the belief "The Auto Industries got themselves into this mess, it's their fault. Don't bail them out". These people don't understand how influential this industry is. GM, as with Ford and Chrysler, aren't just a United States company...we are global.

I can talk for Powertrain when I say the plans between now and the next 10 years are to build plants in China, India, Brazil, Germany....if GM faltered, it wouldn't just impact the US economy, it would be a global problem. We have just as many plants inside the US as we do outside of it.

Yeah, we got "fat and happy" in the 1960's and 70's when everything was going well for the industry. We didn't think towards the future and save for a rainy day. But would anyone have said back then that there would be a chance soon that the industry would go bankrupt in 2009? We need the governments help, and I read an article today that said George Bush isn't ready to give goverment funding to the industry at this time.

My only hope is that Obama can help us out. We sure do need it right now.

Dr. Proxy

Most american cars have lots of European parts, I seen it on Top Gear, there was some chrysler (Forgets the model) and it was literally made of mostly Itallian and german parts, the chassis was Itallian, the Engine was german; so imo it wouldn't make much difference if an American auto company is took over by a foreign investor.
/hopes ford stay "all-american"
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/hopes Chrysler fail
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Dr. Giganto

Well, I believe poorly-run companies should be allowed to fail. The problem is, like other people have mentioned, is that the auto industry is SO big that it would send serious shockwaves through the country.

So, if the government is to bail them out there are a few things that they would need to do, in my opinion.

First, they would need to fire all the upper management. They need to demonstrate that if you are going to run a company into the ground, there are consequences. We're not just going to let you ruin the company, then bail you out and act like nothing ever happened.

Personally, I believe they should have done this with the finance industry also.

Secondly, they need to take all the labor contracts and shred them. They need to explain to the labor unions: Either you take a pay cut or the company folds and you're out of a job.

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Suffy

I do agree for the most part that if a company fails you let them fail but like stated numerous times they are huge.

I have a few things to add to the list above me.

1. Make it so that all cars in the future must be made environmentally viable.

2. Allow more government regulation in reducing carbon emissions from cars (that's in point 1) and make sure that they pay back the government by at least 10 times more.

3. If they fail again let them fail and allow Nissan, Toyota, Honda etc to come in and dominate the market like they have.

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Dakstang

I think instead of doing that, they should cut upper management salaries.

Why cut the lowest paid people?

The CEO shouldn't be getting multi-million bonuses either....

>_<

__________________

There'll be no sorrow there, no more burdens to bear,
No more sickness, no more pain, no more parting over there;
And forever I will be with the One who died for me,
What a day, glorious day that will be.

Suffy

He did say fire all upper management. Most likely won't be getting those high salaries if you fire them all.

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Necro

It's a unique situation, but bailing out a company is kind of bullshit if you ask me. I realize a lot of people's jobs depend on it, but shit a lot of people doing other things are losing their job too. I work in retail every year you have to wonder if the place you are working at is going to fold. No one is sitting there bailing me out.

But I hear ya it's such a high % of people it will fuck other things up. Still they should have thought of that before they didn't do shit to improve their situations. I have sympathy for the every day man on the lower level who gets fucked from this, but those people running that company have been living the high life for years.

Same with every company really though. Top guys get what they want take all the money. Lower people get insanely shit pay, and are told to keep trying hard to save the company.

It's hilarious really when you think about it. I work for KB those fucks make me work every holiday, when no one beyond the stores work it. Everyone above store level takes it off we have to work it. We have to work holidays that pretty much make no money. They even don't pay holiday pay for certain ones now. Only ones that they feel like paying, or are legally made to pay. They also cut out time & half on Sundays unless 8 people work atleast once a week. Which is complete bullshit.