Inogenius

Lehman brothers filed Chapter 11 about an hour ago. Merrill Lynch was bought out by Bank of America (which surprised the hell out of me!).

The question is, who is really to blame? Is it the companies, who funded the loan, like Lehman, or Bear Stearns? Or is it really the people, who took out the loans? Or was it George W's fault for not watching over this?

Because really, this is a capitalistic society. The goal is to meet the consumer's demands. They did that, unfortunately the consumer did not fulfill their promises. So really, can you blame the government? The people? Or the companies?

__________________

Randy Orton

id blame the idiots the signed the loans. they shouldve read wha thtey were signing, obviously compalnies are going to try to make money they aint giving loans out for nothing. but then comes the question, were the loans they giving really ethical when they knew they were going to fuck people over hard by giving them loans they wreen't going to be able to afford. id blame them 2 not the government, the govt. shooould watch over it but they got enough problems as is and dont need to be eaves dropping on everything if you ask me.

__________________

The Brain

What promises are you talking about? If you're talking about being a "good American shopper" then I blame the criminally high gas prices. It's a cliche scapegoat, I know, but these days it's a totally plausible scapegoat.

Dakstang

Well some of these "loans" were what is called predatory lending.

Lend someone money and lead them to believe there payment will be fixed. After a year or so their payment increases drastically.

I blame the companies, as well as the government. I don't really blame the people who took out the loans.

I think our whole system is flawed thoughed. That game is rigged for the upper class. Our social system has become a fixed system for the most part. Whatever you are born, you will stay more tha likely. You have almost no chance to move up the ladder any more. The days of working hard to better yourself is gone. Hard work means nothing anymore.

A very sad state our country is in indeed.

__________________

There'll be no sorrow there, no more burdens to bear,
No more sickness, no more pain, no more parting over there;
And forever I will be with the One who died for me,
What a day, glorious day that will be.

Toaster Oven

I dunno, I make more than my parents do though, so I think your "working hard does nothing" statement is quite inaccurate, as I busted my ass, and now I'm reaping the rewards.

__________________

Dakstang

I guess it depends on what class your parents were in.

I was born into middle class and I always expect to be middle class.

The point I was trying to make is that the oppurtunity for social class advancement is no where near what it used to be. Hard work used to mean a lot more than it does now.

Neither of my parents had a college education and I do. It would stand to reason that I should be able to do better than they did but I am not going to end up making much more than my father made. He was able to work hard and did well for himself.

I am not saying it can't be done. It is just not as easy as it used to be.

__________________

There'll be no sorrow there, no more burdens to bear,
No more sickness, no more pain, no more parting over there;
And forever I will be with the One who died for me,
What a day, glorious day that will be.

Toaster Oven

Well I think one thing that's plaguing this country, and is hurting it the most, is it's overall mentality. I see it all the time. People would rather pay later and get it now. But never seem to figure out how to pay it later. My friend has 5 maxed credit cards, and has no cash flow now. It's just not smart, but he wanted his giant TV, top of the line laptop, top of the line clothes, etc, etc, etc.

Also, I think that with your college education you will do better than your parents, I think it'll just take some patience. I for one, got really, really, really lucky that a career pretty much landed in my lap when I got in trouble.

Another thing is, just because you went to college, it doesn't stand to reason you should make more than anyone else, at least imo. I'm guessing your father, is much like my grandfather in that he went to work everyday, busted his ass doing something, and came home with an hourly paycheck? I don't see how that's any different from a college education tbh. They both require busting your ass, the only difference is you paid while busting your ass, your father didn't.

__________________

Dakstang

Well my father was paid hourly for most of his career but the last 10 years or so he was on salary.

But yeah he worked very hard to get where he was.

I totally agree with the mentality of this country though. A lot of people want to live above their means. One of my friends is dating this guy and she has an almost new car and he has an almost new truck. She is the only one working and they live with his aunt. They are always talking about how broke they are. I wonder why?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 20 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Mean while I am still driving a 10 year old vehicle because I refuse to buy a vehicle that I am not sure if I can pay for or not. I hate buying things on credit.

__________________

There'll be no sorrow there, no more burdens to bear,
No more sickness, no more pain, no more parting over there;
And forever I will be with the One who died for me,
What a day, glorious day that will be.

Inogenius

Yeah, but who wanted to have the house in the hills, while the office was in the city? The American shopper. Even with gas prices tripling in the past 3-4 years, you're only talking about changes of $150-$200, which isn't much in comparison to home mortgage. These people would've been cutting it close either way. I say gas prices go highway way - Pigovian Tax FTW!

Well, as someone whose family owned a mortgage servicing business (our portion was sold in 2002 to a company in Michigan, which is now out of business!) I know all about predatory lending practices. They're always outlawed, and simply require being reported! It's not even that hard to report them. Most of the predatory lending was with higher interest rates, like in the 12% range. A lot of the issues that the mortgage companies are facing are with ARMs and Interest only loans, which the consumer willingly signed up to do. Idiots. Fixed FTW!

I would agree with that. You can certainly move up. Like Suntan I make more than both my parents, individually, combined they make more. But it does require some sacrifices, which may include relocating, lots of time in the office, and not a very active social life. You can also reap the benefits. My boss, who is probably even more capitalistic than I, was born in Oklahoma, lived in Kansas, Arizona and California. Finally moved to Ohio and is making 200k a year. He's got the BMW, a condo right on the lake - he lives a pretty good life. I'm jealous. But it's a significant difference from his Dad who worked in a factory.

__________________

DD

Credit Card companies thrive off the 18-24 year olds. Men and Women. They give them these ridiculous limits, let them charge that shit to the moon knowing its going to take years for these people to pay them off. I was a classic example of this. My wife was too.

If I could have back the thousands of dollars we wasted on interest I would have enough to buy a brand new lexus or something along those lines.

As of now niether my wife or I have any credit cards. I really look at them as fake money, false promises and nothing but trouble. If you can't afford to buy it with your bank account, you can't afford it period.

Did I change the subject?

__________________