Why do we have less Freedom? - Please explain

Papa Shango

Miakal, I notice in your other thread 'What other country would you move to' you said that We here in the UK have less freedom than you.. I get a feeling that this is deserving of a seperate topic.. so tell me Miakal.. why do we have less freedom here?

Miakal

I was refering to guns.

Papa Shango

and Guns = Freedom? How so?

Miakal

The ultimate power to protect your property, your life, your liberty (from oppresive rule) = freedom.

Papa Shango

all it does is give you freedom to shoot some other c#nt.. your only defending yourself againt other people with guns.

if someone threatened you without a gun, you wouldnt need one to defend yourself.



Edited By Papa Shango on Aug. 23 2003 at 22:20

Miakal

So in the UK no one breaks into houses, no one kills another? And that is all because of the lack of guns?

Further, you mentioned twice in this forum the issue of abusive governments and their power.

You mention how the United States has nukes and won't allow others to have them and how this is unfair. Unfair like having a government be able to completely control their people?

Further, you mention that in the UK their are going to be checks on your Iris. Your country is slowly removing all your power to do anything. And what recourse do you have?

I guess you will throw rocks at them. How effective.

Papa Shango

But Shooting my government because they want an iris scan would reduce my freedom even further because i would be thrown in Jail.

I fail to see the comparison between a nation bullying others into disarming and the right to have a gun. Nuclear weapons are a major deterrant.. your guns aint much of a deterrant as is evident with your high murder and crime rates.



Edited By Papa Shango on Aug. 23 2003 at 22:30

Miakal

It may reduce your freedom in the physical sense, but in the greater sense that is absoutely not true.

Further, if everyone were to oppose certain government laws with the power of a gun your government would

A) Cease to exist
B) Change that law

It is a freedom in that you have the choice and decision to make of your life what you will. It is designed to give the PEOPLE the power, not the GOVERNMENT (like in your country).

Our high murder and crime rate can be contributated to other things than guns, or the right to own one.

The issue of one country saying who can and cannot have nuclear weapons (protection) is the same as a government making that call for it's people with guns (protection).

Before we killed millions of Indians what did we do? We took away their guns.

Before Hitler started to slaughter millions of jews what did he do? He took away their guns.

And why did this happen? Because he knew that he couldn't force them to do things if they had the power to protect themselves.

Our founding fathers knew that as well. And they weren't unrealistic enough to think that a government couldn't get abusive or oppressive.

Papa Shango

I still fail to see how a gun protect you from the government. Your guns aint stopping you pay extortionate tax rates and duties. Your guns aint stopping you from having to carry ID cards to do things, same way as they aint going to stop our government making us carry them.

Miakal

[quote:post_uid0="Papa Shango"]I still fail to see how a gun protect you from the government. Your guns aint stopping you pay extortionate tax rates and duties.[/quote:post_uid0]
They could though if the people willed it.

If the government is tapping your phone conversations and following you around everywhere you go, at least you could take a few out with you. You have that power if you so decide. If you do and it's for good reason, I would consider you a martyr.