Do you believe in God?

Dr. Giganto

[quote:post_uid0="skinartia"]Heaven is a Christian theory. Quit cramming it down people's throats.[/quote:post_uid0]
I dont know if that was directed at me, but if it was, i wasnt cramming it down anyone's throat. I'm not particularly religious (besides a wedding i went to recently, i cant remember the last time i went to church), and definitely not religious enough to try to force my beliefs upon anybody.

As far as the theory i mentioned goes, it wasnt intended as anything more than an example of a non-conventional approach to the question. it simplifies the matter way too much (if there is a heaven, you obviously need to do more than just believe in God to get in). it's definitely not why i believe in what i believe in, and i definitely dont expect anyone to change their beliefs because of it. i just thought it was an interesting perspective

Miakal

[quote:post_uid0="Drunksader"]Whether Nirvana is a state of enlightenment or not is irrelevant - it is still a goal that those who believe in it base their beliefs around, much like going to Heaven is the goal of Christianity. Same applies to Greek mythology - there's still someplace you go after you die and if you follow your faith you will get to the most desirable of destinations in the afterlife.
.[/quote:post_uid0]
Actually, it depends on what Buddhist sect you are discussing.

Many sects do not push their students towards enlightenment. In Zen, it's possible to achieve enlightenment in moments.

Furthermore, if a Buddhist "strives" for Enlightenment or Nirvana, or has a goal to achieve it, then he's already on the wrong path and will not arrive there.

Buddhism is a religion with no goals. The practice is enough, no Buddhist needs Nirvana.

Drunksader

So Buddhism has no goal for the afterlife, then? Well I guess I can see that. It does seem to me, however, that "the practice is enough" dictates that Buddhists reach the optimum state of their religion simply by practicing. That doesn't sound a whole lot different than one of the other religions, where the culmination of the practice is the optimum state (i.e., Heaven, etc.)

Heaven and Enlightenment can be seen on an equal level - both can be considered the beneficial outcome for practicing a religion. Even if Enlightenment is a state of mind, it is still the penultimate state of Buddhism, much like Heaven is the penultimate goal of Christianity.

Miakal

Well, to a Buddhist it is very different, obviously.

Goals are a Western idea, not an Eastern one.

On a basic level you might be able to make comparisons of Heaven and Nirvana, but you might also be able to make comparisons between Heaven and a cheeseburger, Nirvana and the super rock group Kansas, too.

Drunksader

True, you do run the risk of breaking things down too much. Well, then with perhaps the exception of Buddhism, just about every other religion has some form of goal/heaven-like place which worshipers expect to attain upon death as part of a reward, if you will, for their faith. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is debatable, but it is difficult to claim that Christianity created the concept entirely, especially considering how young the religion is in relation to Islam - as a matter of fact you'd have to blame Judaism before you blamed Christianity, but you get the point - other religions existed before Christianity and they preached about a heaven-like concept.

Papa Shango

Atheist all the way.

Religion of any form is just created by humans, humans who cant accept that our lives ARE meaningless.

All we are is bacteria on a planet, unfortunately a bacteria with a sense of intelligence to create such ridiculous stories about god.

skinartia

Good call, Papa. I think it's hard for people to realize that they really aren't anything special.

::

"I hate every bone in your body but mine.
I can't wait 'til I can hate you tonight."

~Poison

IRALB

I think Fat Mike said it best...

The number one son is flipping the tab.
Paying for sins and under your hat.
The number one son is flipping the bill.
Let me chip in for the tip.

I don't understand why you beg for forgiveness.
Just before you do it again.
Is it moral-juristic towards you.
Or actually help from a man?

It's not that I don't believe in Jesus Christ.
It's just I care about other things.
The world could certainly use some miracles,
Until then I'll put my faith in human being.

Freak

[quote:post_uid8="Papa Shango"]Religion of any form is just created by humans, humans who cant accept that our lives ARE meaningless.[/quote:post_uid8]
That's partly true, but there's nothing at all wrong with that. Whatever gets somebody up every morning and encourages them to do something good -- well goddamn, that's acceptable in my books. Many people don't simply practice a religion out of sheer denile, but use it as an incentive to actually do something, make a difference.

I'm not religious at all, I'd probably call myself part atheist, but also part agnostic. I don't practice any religion, but I certainly believe that religion exists and can be extremely beneficial.

Miakal

[quote:post_uid0="Papa Shango"]Atheist all the way.

Religion of any form is just created by humans, humans who cant accept that our lives ARE meaningless.

All we are is bacteria on a planet, unfortunately a bacteria with a sense of intelligence to create such ridiculous stories about god.[/quote:post_uid0]
Regardless of why religion is created, it does help people and society out a great deal. Studies have proven that those who are religious live longer than those who are not.

Religious experience, such as prayer or meditation, activates a part of the brain and stimulates unique feelings. This activation proves that religion isn't just a tool, it's a part of human evolution.

Life can be as meaningful or meaningless as you want it to be, it's up to your own experience.