you wanna talk UFC?! okay dude. Then answer me this?
Royce Gracie...
The man is tiny. But using Brazilian Jinjitsu he dominated the first 3 (or 4?) UFC tournaments, he took down guys twice his size.
And your sitting there saying that kurt is tougher than bret because he has more strength (i.e - is bigger)
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There is no way Bret would win. Kurt's strength is much more then Bret's ever was.
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Your the one who brought up UFC because you thought it would benefit your argument. But you've fucked yourself by saying the above quote, because size has nothing to do with being a better fighter.
If you paid attention to any UFC match you may have watched, you would have seen that bigger doesnt necessarily mean better?
Thanks to Royce Gracie, he is the reason UFC has so many submission based fighting styles. Take a look at the first UFC tournament, and you'll see what I mean! The majority of fighters in that first tournament was mostly kickboxers and wrestlers and one or two shoot fighters and Royce Gracie.
After that tournament fighters rethought their strategy, because they realised the power of shoot fighting and brazilian jinjitsu
Now back to my original point of...
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Brets father was trained by 3 shoot fighters, so the basis of Brets 'real' skills would be shoot fighting and therefore would pretty much dominate Kurt.
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Kurt has a amateur wrestling background which means he's good on the mat. Ameteur wrestling is not a full submission based fighting style. Im not saying Kurt doesnt know submissions because he does, but he wouldnt of learnt it primarily on amateur wrestling.
Shoot fighting on the other hand is a hybrid sport which combines Muay Thai Kickboxing and Submission wrestling or Jujitsu. Shootfighting is a complete Style in that it is well versed in standfighting and in grappling.
This is taken from a shootfighting website so you can get a better idea of what is involved:
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Takedowns combine judo with other wrestling throws. The ground work uses a variety of joint locks against all parts of the body. Most of these techniques use the entire body weight against an individual joint and are effective regardless of size. Other basic martial arts principles, such as using an opponents weight and momentum against him, also play a big part.
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So your theory about kurts size/strength is made void in this situation.
Sorry if it sounds like im geeking off, but I started this argument being un-biased and being fair to both Kurt Angle and Bret Hart (i.e - not slating either of them off) and then IdaMan came along and decided to just slag of Bret Hart without any reasoning?
To insult Bret Hart like that is just down right disrespectful.
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Brets experience compared to theirs is a joke. So he trained with his father. Big deal. How many real wrestling matches has he had compared to Kurt? There is no way Bret would ever win. I would be a lot of money even Bret himself would laugh at the though that he could beat kurt in a real match.
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//edited to tie up any loose ends
To put Kurt Angle or Bret Hart into UFC is a joke because its a different situation of fighting for them.
Bret Hart has shootfighting skills but they are nothing compared to people like Royce Gracie or Frank Shamrock ( Brother of Ken Shamrock ), Brets skills are still primarily wrestling, but with a advantage of having shootfighting as a bonus for him. So to suggest that either man should even contemplate the UFC is ridiculous!
oh yeah one more thing
Whats the best way to learn?
a.) the easy way?
b.) the hard way?
You figure it out. Stu Hart put rookies in hold they couldnt get out of to train them better. I was always told that "If it hurts you dont forget it" This principle applies here obviously.